Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Nagaraj

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 276
Sri Ravi

What an inspiring post. I have head about this story. 'Bhavanitvam. What beautiful narration. Cannot be more sweeter.

Bhagawan has said in one instance, atma jnana will be thrust on us even if we dont want it.


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 20, 2013, 07:09:24 PM »
Dear Sir

Here us that verse 35, am just providing englush translation now as i dnt gave comp access and am writing through mobile.

Master, O friend of all who reverently surrender unto thee, thou ocean of mercy, I salute thee; save me, fallen as I am into this sea of worldly existence, with a direct glance from thy eyes which shower nectarine Grace Supreme


General Discussion / Re: my musings
« on: March 20, 2013, 06:42:18 PM »
Can there be any time frame for sravana manana nidhidhtasana ? Which ought to be practiced fir some time? I believe time concept is myth. All of these may transpire in just a flup second or may even take several lives. In bhagawans case it was just 15 minutes.

Moreover sravana manana nidhidhyasa are just terms given. Does the true sadhaka who is thoroughly immersed in god or jnana vichara have any conscience to see that ah ! Yes niw am doing sravana ah ! Now am doing manana ah! Now am doibg nidhidhyasa...

The entire thing is about the annihilation of the doer! When one is immeresed in hus quest what matter in terms and definitions?

Sheer dedication or shraddha or bhakti is what is attributed to such sadhaja immersed in god or jnana.

All these are jyst terms

Dear udai,

Ok. Lets nit go in puranas or bhagawatam. You trust the authority og bhagawan ramaba right? What do u gave to say abt his declaration of cow lakshmi moksha. Bhagawan himself said and composed a small song her liberation. Wt sravana manana nidhidhyasa could cow do ?

Moreover do u think bhagawans mother did such intricate analyses such as suggested by you?

Take shankara hinself, he liberated his mother in her death bed.

Do u trust these ? Can the rational mind even near these?


Do not side track, see the points at face value.

That is it.

you are now just merely arguing for argument sake, Kutarka is stepping in.

BTW you had asked for examples for nayana dheeksha etc... hence Puranas and Bhagavatam was quoted. If you believe them to be myth. Then, God bless you!


and plz stop quoting puranas ... coz puranas may or may not be in accordance with shankara's teachings.
there are many contradictory and wrong ideas also in puranas.

Sravana means hearing scriptures.
if one does not know how it happened :D LOL thats interesting !! IT just means he was sleeping all along :D

I have nothing against narada or bhagavatam ... they just teach bhakti

You are ridiculous! DO you realise You are even Against Shankara!:D :D

God Bless you!


Oh Udai,

Long long before i have mentioned many times in the forum even to you the real significnce of ahalya turning into stone -

Dear Udai,

That Ahalya became a stone is described in all other kinds of Ramayanas, especially in the Kamba Ramayana and Tulasi Ramayana. But it is just a poetic expression of the poet. Becoming a stone does not mean literally. It means Ahalya lost her glory and wisdom and discernments and discrimination and remained like a "jada" She had become a stone hearted and had lost all the virtues of a celebrated human being.

I too have seen so may say things about Ahalya, they say things without proper understanding and discerning the inner essence of the poets expression.

Such a stone hearted Ahalya needed the Sparsha Dheeksha of the soft hands of Sri Rama and his sweet and caressing words of Sri Rama. One of the names of Sri Rama in Sri Rama Ashtottara is "Mridu Bhashine" meaning "Soft Spoken"

Look at the story of Angulimaala who used to kill people and cut the persons thumb and had it as a garland as a testimony to his killing. He needed the soft words of Buddha to wake him up, He was a stone too, till Buddha's touch graced him!

Salutations to Bhagavan


Humility is not an expression. Saying "I am Humble, I wont disagree with anyone" is not humility.
to be humble is something internal... one need not "Express humility" and if one expresses its not truely humility.
Understanding is To Get the Vision of Truth.

I have the vision of truth as presented by Shankara ... Aparoksha jnana ... once htis is there , i know what and why he is syaing what he is saying.

Fine, i am not going to question your claim, you may know. Just remember the following, i had already posted.

न चाध्यात्माभिमानोऽपि विदुषोऽस्त्यासुरत्वतः ।
विदुषोऽप्यासुरश्चेत्स्यान्निष्फलं ब्रह्मदर्शनम् ॥

There cannot be pride of learning in a knower of Brahman because
such things belong to the demoniac; if even a knower of Brahman
suffers from this demoniac quality then his knowledge is futile.

(Sureshwaracharya, Naishkarmya siddhi)

ननु विजिगीषोरात्मबोध एव नास्ति,

Vidyaranya - Moreover, there is not even Self-knowledge in him who
is desirious of defeating others, Sureshwaracharya quoted from Naishkarmyasiddhi, thus:

रागो लिङ्गमबोधस्य चित्तव्यायामभूमिषु ।
कुतः शाद्वलता तस्य यस्याग्निः कोटरे तरोः ॥

Attachment to the grounds on which the mind exercises indicates absence of knowledge.
How can a tree remain verdant which has fire in its hollow?

याज्ञवल्क्यस्तु विजिगीषुदशायां न हीदृशः, चित्तविश्रान्तये विद्वत्संन्यासस्य तेन करिष्यमाणत्वात् । न केवलमस्य विजिगीषा किंतु धनतृष्णापि महती जाता, यतो, बहूनां ब्रह्माविदां पुरतः स्थापितं सालंकारं गोसहस्रमपहृत्य स्वयमेवेदमाह - नमो वयं ब्रह्मिष्ठाय कुर्मो गोकामा एव वयं स्मः ।

Yajnavalkya was verily not in this state while he was still desirous of victory in disputation, since he was yet to take the vidvatsannyaasa in order to set the mind at rest. Not only he was desirous of victory but had a great thirst for wealth as well, since he, while carrying away thousand cows decorated with gold and put before the assembly of many knowers of Brahman, himself said thus - 'we bow to the wisest of the Brahmanas, but we just wish to have the cows.'

(Vidyaranya, Jivanmukti Viveka)


Nidhidhyasana ... means prior sravana-manana.
without sravana - manana nidhidhyasanam is not possible.

ok! accept it, what about it? This Sravana Manana Nidhidhyasa may happen in any manner, there is no standard protocol  See this Story of Narada, all the said Sravana manana nidhidhyasa happens at Grace, he did not even know what sravana manana nidhidhyasa was  -

nAradA's past

In my previous birth in an earlier kalpA (cycle of time) I was born as the son of a maid-servant in a community of vEdic ritualists. I was, therefore, from boyhood engaged in attending on yOgIs who gathered at the place for the chAturmAsyA (4 month retreat during rainy season) Those holy men, though even minded in their outlook, were mightily pleased with my services, especially seeing how I, thought a mere boy, was devoid of all fickleness and boyish playfulness, was disciplined and brief-spoke, and atteneded on them with dedication and understanding of their needs.

Permitted by these holy men, I once partook of the remnants of the food left by them Being purified in mind by this act, I developed a taste for the devotional life which these holy men followed. By their blessing I was able to hear every day their attractive recitals of kRushnA's life and actions. Hearing every syllable of those recitals with faith and attention, I developed the feeling of delight in the Lord, whose glories are charming to contemplate.

After I developed this delight in the Lord, my mind would never disengage itself from Him of endearing glory. In this mental state I experienced that the whole of the universe in its subtle as well as gross condition is generated y His power of mAyA in Himself, from whom my entity, the jIvA, too has no separate existence.

Listening continuously all through the spring and the rainy season, at the three sandhyAs of the day, to the recitals of the Lord's sanctifying glory by these holy men, there sprang up in me that powerful devotion which obliterates all traces of tamas and rajas.

When dispersing after the chAturmAsyA period, the kind-hearted and merciful holymen imparted to me the transcendent knowledge of the Supreme Divine (jnyAnam guhyatamam), whjich He himself had revelaed to them. For, though a boy, they found in me a fit recipient, as I was loving, humble, sinless, attentive, self-controlled and obedient.

By that knowledge I was enabled to obtain the grace of the mAyA of vAsudEvA, the omiscient and omnipotent Lord, by which the jIvA attains to His being.

(nAradA to Sage vyAsA, when vyAsA was discontent inspite of segregating the vEdAs, writing mahAbhAratA, etc.,)

(I, 5, 23-31)


BTW Tushnim

  :) Prejudiced or otherwise ... Shankara clearly dismissed lot of views... if bhagaatam believes otherwise or vishnu puran or siva puran speak something else ... i take them only as long as they are as per Shankara's teachings ... else they have to be rejected outright. This is my stand ... whether or not others agree.

so all i am saying ehre also is that shankara does not support nayana deeksha , touch deeksa etc ... they may lull the mind but not give moksha.

DO not believe, that you have completely read and studied all about Shankara! The Shankaracharya of Sringeri is more humble than you!


You are Rama Bhaka,

Do you believe at least in Rama? Do you believe Ramas feet touching the stone liberated Ahalya?

Your interpretation of nayana dheeksha etc.. is merely restricted to one birth on hand, you do not know how many birth one had and how much sadhana has one already performed, look at Hastamalaka look, he never spoke a word before Shankara came to him, he was categorised as deff and dumb. Look at Bhagavan Ramana.

BTW, do you have trust in Srimad Bhagavatam?


Dear Nagaraj,
Brahma Jnanam is merely the residue that shines when there is complete Chitta Shuddhi

Another wrong idea. This jnana is something to be practised in nidhidhyasanam and mananam.
its not the residue of purification of mind. otherwise why even study scriptures ? why not simply sit
and practise yoga. This is the idea that was rejected by panchadasi in this thread start.

Atma bodha says:
अझानकलुषँ जीवँ झानाभ्यासाद्विनिर्मलम्।
कृत्वा झानँ स्वयँ नश्येज्जलँ कतकरेणुवत्॥

Jiva(individual) who is defiled by ignorance can purify himself with the practise of jnana or self knowledge. Having purified the jiva (individual) the knowledge gets resolved too, as even when the power of kataka nut is added to water it settles the impurities in it and having done that it also settles down at the bottom.

Practise of jnana ... and then having established the person jnana leaves.
so this jnana ... cannot be ... residue to pure mind !!

Nidhidhyasana is also mere for Chitta Shuddhi purposes only! If one is established why practice nidhidhyasa? Its only because there is potential for the CHitta to be corrupted!

You are just saying the same Udai, going round and round!

Any practice is only for CHitta Shuddhi! Abidance if not practice! Abidance is pure Nishta or Being!


A person seeking knowledge should go to a guru who is a Srotriya and Brahma Nishta and learn Scriptures from him.... how many references should i give you of this statement ?

can you show me one reference by shankara of nayana deeksha as a means to jnana !?

Firstly, Your prejudice is very evident in your above statement (given below) by mentioning only Shankara!!!! :D

can you show me one reference by shankara of nayana deeksha as a means to jnana !

Please read Srimad Bhagavatam, there are plenmty of instances, where you will find the prostitude, Gajendra Moksha, Story of Ajamila, etc... there are plenty, Gopikas!


You said -

Though there can be temporary elimination of thought [through mind control) without brahma jnanam the future arising of mind will not cease.

There is not sayingm, without Brahma Jnanam. Brahma Jnanam is merely the residue that shines when there is complete Chitta Shuddhi

There are several ways to attain that unsullied Chitta Shuddhi. From Yoga, to Bhakti to Karma to Hata Yoga, all are advised even in Yoga Vasishtam.

I do not think there is anything to disagree, if there is no complete CHitta Shuddhi there is no Brahma Jnanam.

But, you say, without Brahma Jnanam the future arising of mind will not cease.

Brahma Jnana is the residue that is already our nature that is hidden due to impurities in Citta.


Dear Nagaraj,

Chittasya shuddaye karmanaha na tu vastupa labhyate - shankara in Vivekachoodamani. Karmas are for purification purposes only and never for liberation.

I do not think anybody disagree with this.

But Having said this Shankara did not do away with Karma. He himself carried out tough anushtaanas and set examples for his disciples and people in society and got LIngas and established Mathas, and set the procedures for worship at various temples, from Pasupatinath temple in Nepal to Kamakshi temple in Kanchipuram.

This is Exactly the point. So if you agree to this ... all your meditation practises are only for chitta sudhi and only JNANA leads to Moksha. Thats all i am saying.

From the beginning, i can assure, no members disagree with this point! But, at the same time you have to accept this as well -

I do not think anywhere, it has been denied that jnana is not required. The only contention is that Jnana can dawn from any source. There is no fixed way. Jnana may happen at the even at the very instance of Nayana Dheeksha the holy glance of Realised Guru, and need not necessarily dawn only out of intellectual study. It may dawn in a devoted action of intense prayer to the Higher power and so on.


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 276