Author Topic: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough  (Read 372543 times)

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #150 on: November 12, 2010, 06:00:48 AM »
To quote from Panchadasi thread --- part 6 as posted by Prasanth
91. If he controls and concentrates his mind, he is a meditator and not a knower of
truth. To know a pot the mind need not be controlled.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #151 on: November 12, 2010, 07:23:57 AM »



There  is an ocean of difference between the state of a Jivan mukta
and ours who are not yet realized. 

The B.U. says:  When all the desires that dwell in his heart are gone, then he, having been a mortal, verily becomes immortal.  And realizes  Brahman in this very body.  Such a Jivan Mukta is called
in various names, gunatita, sthitaprajna at al.

Vasishta tells Rama:  He is said to be liberated-while-living to whom
this world of senses ceases to exist although he is transacting with it in the usual way and TO WHOM ONLY THE ALL PERVADING CONSCIOUSNESS EXISTS.

I trust, in such a state, he will see, including the body of himself
and bodies of all living beings, as Consciousness.  He, who although transacting with all sorts of sense objects, remains cool as if they
are all concerned with someone else, and he who is self-integrated
into a whole.

   

Arunachala Siva.

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #152 on: November 12, 2010, 07:45:13 AM »
Quote
When the mind melts with love of Him,
Subtle Eye of Consciousness opens,
And He reveals Himself as Pure Knowledge.

Sri Bhagwan

Very Very nice. The mind melts with Love of Him.
The Subtle Eye of Consciousness opens.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #153 on: November 12, 2010, 07:59:13 AM »
if the world and sense cease to exist, how can he transact with them!!
its like saying, in my deep sleep, i talked to u for half an hour!

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #154 on: November 12, 2010, 08:41:15 AM »



Yes. A Jivanmukta can do that.  It is called Jagrat Sushupti.

Bhagavan says in Talks 609:

The state of the Jnani...is neither sleep nor the waking state
but intermediate between the two.  There is the awareness
of the waking state and the stillness of the sleep.  It is called
Jagrat-sushupti.  Call it wakeful sleep or sleepless waking or wakeless sleep.  It is not the same as sleep or waking separately.  It is atijagrat or atisushupti.....

Laghu Yogavasishta says:

When the attention of Jivanmukta is drawn towards worldly activities, by the people near, they perform their duties set
by the tradition just like somnambulists and themselves remain
unaffected.

Mundaka Upanishad says: 

Obj: The accomplished one [i.e. Jivanmukta] does not see, and he performs the conventional duties -- these two are mutually contradicting statements.  It that not so?

Reply :  No. This can be solved according to the degrees of tranquillity.  Having this in view, the Sruti says:  'One who sports
with, delight in and works through the Self is the foremost among the knowers of Brahman.

Bhagavan Ramana says in Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam Verse 5:

He who, with Heart to you surrendered,
Beholds for ever You alone,
Sees all things as forms of You
And loves and serves them as none other
Than the Self.  O Aruna Hill,
Triumphs because he is immersed
in You whose being is pure bliss.

[tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan]


Narayana Upanishad:

Not only the activities prescribed by the scriptures, but also all
the worldly activities of the Yogi are of the nature of religious austerities only.           



Arunachala Siva.

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #155 on: November 12, 2010, 09:38:26 AM »
So this is what you are saying: A Realized person is one who does not see this world, but interacts with it!
is that so ? :D

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #156 on: November 12, 2010, 10:01:39 AM »



A Jivan mukta sees the world through eye of Jnana.  He transacts
with the world as the Self.

GVK Verse 54 says:

The Jnani's vision matures into being consciousness bliss, the
eye of Truth, because the mischievous movements of the ego-
mind have ceased completely.  Since the nature of the seen is not
different from the nature of the eye that sees, to the true Jnani
the world too is definitely being consciousness bliss.

Vasishta further narrates the characteristics of a Jivan Mukta:

He whose face neither beams in happiness nor becomes drowned
in sorrow, and he whose body is maintained from whatever comes of its own accord, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is wide awake although in deep sleep, who has no
distinguished waking state, and whose knowledge is free from
desires, is called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is absolutely pure at heart, like the clear akasa, although responsive to the spurs of love, hate, fear and the like, is called
a Jivan Mukta.

*

He whose intellect is not tainted and whose inner self is not
affected by the feeling of "I am the doer" caused by egoism
while being engaged or not in the rites and other activities, is
called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He neither perturbs the world, nor gets perturbed by the world,
and he who is free from joy, anger, gusto and fear as well, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who is free from all worldly thoughts, although skilled in arts, is without any and who is, as it were, without a mind although having one, is called a Jivan Mukta.

*

He who although, transacting with all sorts of sense objects, remains cool as if they are all concerned with someone else,
and he is who self-integrated into a whole, is said to be a Jivan Mukta.

*

When the body expires in time - just as the wind becomes motionless - he gives up his body state, and thus a Jivan
Mukta enters the state of Nirvanam.



Arunachala Siva.           

silentgreen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 674
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #157 on: November 12, 2010, 10:12:48 AM »
Quote
There  is an ocean of difference between the state of a Jivan mukta
and ours who are not yet realized.

I agree with this statement.
A Jivan Mukta is like a rocket which has exceeded escape velocity and went out of the earth's gravitation field. They are in space and exhaust their karma on earth from there. We operate on earth within the earth's gravitation field. An incarnation is higher. From the space they come down to earth for well-being of humanity at large.

This is not merely a statement from the Jnana literature. Tantric scriptures also identify three granthis: the Brahma Granthi, the Vishnu Granthi and the Rudra Granthi. These granthis are like knots which holds one in bondage. A person (according to that system) becomes free only after those knots melt away.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #158 on: November 12, 2010, 12:21:49 PM »



Dear silentgreen,

Diary of M dated 24th August 1882:

M:-  When one sees God, does one see Him with these eyes?

MASTER;-  God cannot be seen with these physical eyes.  In the
course of spiritual discipline, one gets a "love body", endowed with
"love eyes"  {Jnana KaN says Bhagavan Ramana}, "love ears", and
so on.  One sees God with those "love eyes."  One hears the voice
of God with those "love ears".  But this is not possible without
intense love of God [Bhagavan Ramana calls it as self surrender].
One sees God alone everywhere when one loves Him with great
intensity.  It is like a person with jaundice, who sees everything yellow.  Then one feels "I am verily He".  One who thinks of God day and night beholds Him everywhere.  It is like a man's seeing huge flames on all sides, after he has gazed fixedly at one huge flame for sometime.

While Bhagavan Ramana mentioned only about Chit-Jada granthi,
Sri Lalita Sahasranamam describes three granthis, Bramha Granthi,
Vishnu Granthi and Rudra Granthi.  These are three knots that one
encounters in Mooladharam, Manipurakam and Ajana while practising Kundalini Yoga.  After breaking these three knots one attains Sahasraram where Mother showers nectar.  [Sri Lalita Sloka 39]
Attaining Sahasraram, one merges with Siva-Sakti and and prana escapes through the crown to merge with the pure space.

Bhagavan Ramana though He did not disapprove Yoga marga, had
mentioned the strain involved in that.  He says in Jnana Marga, the mind simply merges in the Heart without return.



Arunachala Siva.   

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #159 on: November 12, 2010, 05:27:10 PM »
  Dear Sri Subramanian Ji, Sri silentgreen, Sri Udai Ji and all devotees,

  Guru's Words are the nectarine Words of Grace. They are Brahm Vakyas. I quote here again from the
 Talks, No-396.
 Sri Bh:
 
 " What is life ? Life is existence which is your Self. That is life eternal. Otherwise can you imagine a time when
 you are not ?
 That life is now conditioned by the body and you wrongly identify your being with that of the body. You are life
 unconditioned. These bodies attach themselves to you as mental projections and you are now afflicted by
 'I-am-the -body' idea. If this body idea ceases you are your Self.
 Where and how were you before being born ? Were you in sleep ? How were you ? You exist then too without the
 body. Then the ego arises, and then the mind which projects the body. 'I-am-the-body' idea is the result.
 Because the body exists you say that it was born and that it will die. In fact you remain without the body in
 sleep; but now you remain with the body.The Self can remain without the body, but the body can not exist
 apart from the Self.
 'I-am-the-body' thought is ignorance; that the body is not apart from the Self is knowledge. That is the
 difference between knowledge and ignorance.
 The body is a mental projection, the mind is the ego; and the ego rises from the Self. So the body-thought
  is distracting and strays away from the Self. For whom is the body or the birth ? It is not for the Self,
  the Spirit. It is for the non-self which imagines itself separate.

                                                                                    Thank you,
                                                                                       Anil   
   
 

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #160 on: November 12, 2010, 05:48:52 PM »
  Composed of flesh, bone, blood, mal, mutra etc. this ever changing block of a body is insentient like
 the log of wood.It is animated, as you are aware, by the Light and Power of the Self, which is the Only
 Unchanging, One, Transcendental Reality and which is not different  from Brahman and the Feeling of Existence,
' I-am ',  the Pure Awareness. Therefore, it would do tons of good to seekers, if , instead of being enamoured with
 this ever changing body and its comforts and which is destined to undergo the experiences under the force of
 the prarabdha whether we do something for it or not, we should make whole-hearted efforts to hold on to that
 which underlies the body, which is the substratum, and which is our real Self.
  Everything  appears to us through the mind and its notion. Therefore, everything that appears to us is a mere
  notion.
  Has not Sri Bhagwan said that the body itself is a disease ? He Himself amply demonstrated by His own
  example by remaining indifferent to the pain and torture caused by the dreadful sarcomatus in the twilight of His
  earthly life.

                                                                                                  Thank You,
                                                                                                     Anil     
   
   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #161 on: November 12, 2010, 06:24:25 PM »



Chandogya Upanishad says:

Not remembering the body into which He was born, just as an animal is attached to a cart, so is the vital air attached to the body."

The knower of Brahman remains without remembering his own that is near the other people.  Only the people around him see the body of the knower of the Truth.  He being mindless, does not remember as "This is my body".  As the horse driven along by the driver reaches the next destination, without the need to be directed repeatedly by the driver, so the vital air established in this body by the Supreme Lord, maintains the activities of the body irrespective of the efforts of the individual. 



Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #162 on: November 13, 2010, 03:46:07 PM »
   Dear Sri Udai Shankar,

  First, I must acknowledge that I love your as well as Sri Silentgreen's critical bent of mind. It helps strengthen
 the spirit of  enquiry.I also love Sri Subramanian ji's spontaneity.

   You have said  that when all is Brahman, body and the world is also Brahman. But Brahman is ever present,
 unchanging, and unmoving. But we see that the body and the world sometimes appear and sometime do not.
 Unlike Brahman they are transitory, ever changing,ever moving. Isn't it ?

  An analogy is often drawn between Brahman and the Ocean. Ocean is a vast body of water, ever present,
 ever still,unchanging,and unmoving... etc. But waves in it, although made of the same substance water,
 rise from the Ocean,are ever changing, ever moving, while they have their stay in the Ocean, but finally
 resolving into it. Waves are of and in the Ocean .They are not apart from the Ocean. They  verily are ocean.
 
  Likewise, we are aware, by the Grace of Sri Bhagwan, that the mind which is the indefinable and wonderous
 power of the Brahman, rise from Brahman, is never still for a moment,ever moving, ever changing much like
 the waves in the Ocean. We know that the body and the mind are merely mental projection and rise
 simultaneously with the rise of the mind. When the mind arise , all else arise. Mind, body and the world are
 made of the same substance as the Brahman. They all are verily the Brahman. However, they are never still for a
 moment,sometimes present, sometimes not,ever moving, ever changing. They all rise from the Brahman, have
 their stay in It and finally resolve into It. All are Brahman, as Sri Subramanian Ji so beautifully explained.

                                                                                 Thank You,
                                                                                     Anil           

eranilkumarsinha

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1913
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #163 on: November 13, 2010, 04:04:11 PM »
   Dear Devotees,

  What is Life ?
 Sri Bhagwan says that Life is Existence. And Existence is the Self or the Brahman or the feeling, ' I am '.
 As sri Bhagwan asked, if we try to imagine a time when we were not, we can not. Ours is a Life eternal.
 
  Life eternal has been conditioned by the mind-body complex from the time immemorial, birth after birth.
 And this has led us to identify our being, tenaciously but wrongly, with that of the mind-body complex.
 We are in truth Life unconditioned.

  One can become conscious of the ' Feeling of  Existence ' I am ' by stilling the mind even for a while, if one is
 sensitive enough. This is within the experience of all of us.

  Now, what is 'I am' ? Is 'I am' a thought ? Sri Bhagwan says that the egoless 'I am' is not a thought. It is the
 Realization. The meaning , significance and the true import of  'I'  is God.

                                       " THE EXPERIENCE OF 'I AM' IS TO BE STILL."

                                                                                 Thank You
                                                                                      Anil

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Self-enquiry as taught by Sri Bhagwan is enough
« Reply #164 on: November 13, 2010, 05:37:06 PM »



Self transcends mind and body.  Everything starting from the mind,
thought [the root being I thought] takes birth, is sustained and then
dissolved in the Self.  Bhagavan Ramana says this in Verse 2 of
Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam.

As on a screen a wondrous picture
On You, fair Hill, is all this world
Formed and sustained and then withdrawn
Ever as "I" in the heart You dance,
Hence are You called the Heart.

-Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan

Now this Arunachala can be Atma as seen outside.
It is also within us as Atma.

All the worlds [including all beings in it]  are formed, sustained and dissolved in Arunachala.

Similarly right from the time wake up, all thoughts and worlds
are formed, sustained throughout the day, and then get dissolved
in the Self when we go into deep sleep.

Arunachala is Atma, without and within.

Seeing the Atma or Atma darshan is experiencing the Atma within,
where there are no thoughts. 

Bhagavan Ramana says this in Verse 2 of Sri Arunachala Ashtakam:


Inquiring within 'Who is the seer?' I saw the seer disappearing
and That alone stands for ever.  No thought arose to say "I saw".
How then could the thought arise to say "I did not see"?  Who has
the power to explain all this in words, when You as {Sri Dakshinamurty} conveyed this of yore in Silence only?  And in order to reveal by silence, Your state transcendent, now You stand here,
a Hill resplendent soaring to the sky.

-Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan.

This verse describes Arunachala = Atma = Silence [achalam].



Arunachala Siva.