Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 195604 times)

silentgreen

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1680 on: March 11, 2013, 09:04:33 AM »
Incidentally, the robber kept on laughing at the judicial process saying that he is only seeing confusion and ignorance. But the judicial process need to proceed and clear-cut answers needs to emerge.

Therefore I request other forum members to help the case by giving clear-cut answers to these questions.
1. Exactly what type of understanding prevents a jnani from becoming a robber?

2. What is that freedom inspite of having which and becoming fearless one does not rob?

3. What is the nature of that detachment which prevents a jnani from robbing?

4. What is the relationship between vyavaharika and paramarthika? Does paramarthika understanding gets reflected in vyavaharika life or are the two completely detached?
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

atmavichar100

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1681 on: March 11, 2013, 09:05:38 AM »
I feel again and again the topic on whether a Jnani has thoughts , is smadhi experience is needed prior to self realization to destroy vasanas etc keeping coming again and again and I am sharing below what Bhagwan Ramana and Annamalai Swami have stated .


Bhagwan Ramana on whether a Jnani has thoughts or  not

Quote
D.: So one need not seek to control the mind?
Bhagwan Ramana .: There is no mind to control if you realise the Self. The mind vanishing, the Self shines forth. In the realised man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone remains for him. For the mind, the body and the world are not separate from the Self. They rise from and sink into the Self. They do not remain apart from the Self. Can they be different from the Self? Only be aware of the Self. Why worry about these shadows? How do they affect the Self?

Annamalai Swami on whether Nirvikalpa Samadhi experience is needed to destroy vasanas and how to destroy vasanas .

Quote
D : It is clear that vasanas are not destroyed during sleep . Are they destroyed by nirvikalpa samadhi or does this state have no effect on them ?
Annamalai Swami :  Bhagwan taught that we should aim for sahaja samadhi , not nirvikalpa samadhi .He said that it was not necessary to experience nirvikalpa samadhi prior to enjoying sahaja samadhi .

In the peace of the Self there are no vasanas .If you can establish yourself in the Self , all vasanas will be destroyed .Witness the vasanas as they arise but dont identify with them or act on them .If you want to get rid of your vasanas ,you must learn to practice non - involvement .
If you feeel yourself identifying with a vasana when it starts to rise , remind yourself ,"This vasana is not me " and withdraw into the Self . If you learn to ignore your vasana in this way they will eventually stop rising .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1682 on: March 11, 2013, 09:13:03 AM »
What is just missing is... perhaps a Rajdeep Sardesai or an Arnob Goswami or a Bharkha Dutt  to anchor the discussion :D

Just for light fun :D
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1683 on: March 11, 2013, 09:14:03 AM »
I feel again and again the topic on whether a Jnani has thoughts , is smadhi experience is needed prior to self realization to destroy vasanas etc keeping coming again and again and I am sharing below what Bhagwan Ramana and Annamalai Swami have stated .


Bhagwan Ramana on whether a Jnani has thoughts or  not

Quote
D.: So one need not seek to control the mind?
Bhagwan Ramana .: There is no mind to control if you realise the Self. The mind vanishing, the Self shines forth. In the realised man the mind may be active or inactive, the Self alone remains for him. For the mind, the body and the world are not separate from the Self. They rise from and sink into the Self. They do not remain apart from the Self. Can they be different from the Self? Only be aware of the Self. Why worry about these shadows? How do they affect the Self?

Annamalai Swami on whether Nirvikalpa Samadhi experience is needed to destroy vasanas and how to destroy vasanas .

Quote
D : It is clear that vasanas are not destroyed during sleep . Are they destroyed by nirvikalpa samadhi or does this state have no effect on them ?
Annamalai Swami :  Bhagwan taught that we should aim for sahaja samadhi , not nirvikalpa samadhi .He said that it was not necessary to experience nirvikalpa samadhi prior to enjoying sahaja samadhi .

In the peace of the Self there are no vasanas .If you can establish yourself in the Self , all vasanas will be destroyed .Witness the vasanas as they arise but dont identify with them or act on them .If you want to get rid of your vasanas ,you must learn to practice non - involvement .
If you feeel yourself identifying with a vasana when it starts to rise , remind yourself ,"This vasana is not me " and withdraw into the Self . If you learn to ignore your vasana in this way they will eventually stop rising .

Dear Atmavichar,
          :) Perfect !!
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1684 on: March 11, 2013, 09:19:11 AM »
udai,

Quote
How do you know ? How do you know ? Again a claim , baseless.
Sir this is what I do not do. I never make such claims about you or anyone here. I disagree with ideas... dont have anything abt people.
Ideas are always associated with People.They do not exist independently.The only difference may be whether they are popular(appreciated by many,shared by many) or otherwise(not appreciated or shared by many).So,Your arguement falls flat.

>>>>>>>>>How does it mean my argument falls flat ? :D LOL! its raining today therefore your argument falls flat :D

Quote
How do you know ? Again a claim , baseless.
Sir this is what I do not do. I never make such claims about you or anyone here. I disagree with ideas... dont have anything abt people
It is quite simple.The Statements that you make and stand for,clearly evidence this.On the one hand you say that only the One who understands knows,and on the other hand you say that you discuss only ideas.See the Dichotomy.

>>>>>>> How do you know what a person of Understanding does ? Are you going to tell a Jnani how he should behave or act ? :D LOL!

Quote
Not necessary that others understand. Many people thought Sri Ramakrishna was a mad man. Many people took Ramana to be following some crude philosophy. This is a purely imaginary idea invented by Ravi ji to prove me that I am bound ...

Again,you are telling just one side of the Story at a superficial level.Did Not Mathur and Rasamoni Devi strongly suspect that there is something extraordinary about the apparent 'madcap'.So it was with others?The Transformation will definitely come about ,in case of some Rapidly and in case of others Gradually.Yet,it does come about.

>>>>>> So gradually you too will understand. Jesus was crucified and until then many people did not understand ...gradually you too will understand sir. when that happens you will say "udai was indeed liberated, unnecessarily i was arguing with him :D ... but that may be in this birth or the next ... or may be after I attain videhamukti :D

 
Quote
As I said in the very beginning ... this was ur conclusion even before you started discussion...

I would say that this is the conclusion once again!We have had several rounds of Discussion earlier and to almost similiar outcome!Nothing new now ,in as much as the ideas are pretty much the same,even if they are dished out from the Books in Isolation.

>>> which book ? :)

Namaskar.
>>Namaskar!
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

atmavichar100

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1685 on: March 11, 2013, 09:20:12 AM »
Quote
Dear Atmavichar,
          :) Perfect !!

Ok so can I take that the debate ends or this will be the starting point for the next debate ? :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1686 on: March 11, 2013, 09:21:10 AM »
Dear Atmavichar,
     :) you can take it that I do not have any debate with you on this point if thats what you have to say :).

Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

atmavichar100

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1687 on: March 11, 2013, 09:27:59 AM »
Dear Atmavichar,
     :) you can take it that I do not have any debate with you on this point if thats what you have to say :).
I did not say anything but only copy pasted what Bhagwan Ramana and Annamalai Swami said  :) But I resonate with what they said .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1688 on: March 11, 2013, 09:31:05 AM »
Quote
Udai,

"udai was indeed liberated, unnecessarily i was arguing with him ... but that may be in this birth or the next ... or may be after I attain videhamukti


I find now you are just freewheeling!So,if it can give some comfort feel and consolation to you-Let me Declare-'Udai is Self Realized JnAni,A true jivanmukta whose only purpose in sticking around here is to make others see the Light'. :)

Now this should be sounding pretty Logical and cogent. :)

Namaskar.

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1689 on: March 11, 2013, 09:34:03 AM »
yes Atmavichar,
       :) Everyone else can also see what they have said.
Now the point is Ramana said elsewhere that "I do not have any thoughts" ... they do not know how to reconcile it ! Thus they ignore this and pick that.
its better if a person ignores that and picks this.
anyways I reconcile both ... and clearly see the point they have been presenting all along.

Anyways, this appreciation of what they said is very fundamental and important for liberated living. whoever gets it, gets it. not that i did not experience samadhi and hence i am speaking like this.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1690 on: March 11, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
Quote
Udai,

"udai was indeed liberated, unnecessarily i was arguing with him ... but that may be in this birth or the next ... or may be after I attain videhamukti


I find now you are just freewheeling!So,if it can give some comfort feel and consolation to you-Let me Declare-'Udai is Self Realized JnAni,A true jivanmukta whose only purpose in sticking around here is to make others see the Light'. :)

Now this should be sounding pretty Logical and cogent. :)

Namaskar.

Did I ask you to proclaim me as Self Realized Jnani ? Just claiming that wont make it logical. Neither rejecting it makes it logical. Freewheeling is another claim of yours, without proper analysis.
neither saying this, nor saying the other makes you logical ravi ji.
:D
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1691 on: March 11, 2013, 09:44:06 AM »
Udai,
As I understand,What Udai says is 'Logical' and what others says 'is not Logical'.Anyway,we are not discussing Logic at all and the fact remains that till now not a simple explanation has come regaring your claims of Freedom,Wisdom and Abidance in The Self-You are unable to link it with Living in any experiential way.
That is it!
Namaskar.

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1692 on: March 11, 2013, 09:58:30 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
      :) What do you meany "link it with living in an experiential way" ? :D do you mean how do I prove it to you ... I have no intention to do that. you are liberated as well... find out for yourself ...
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1693 on: March 11, 2013, 11:25:13 AM »
Questioner: I have come from England and I am on my way to Madras. There I shall meet my father and we shall go by car overland to London. I am to study psychology, but I do not yet know what I shall do when I get my degree. I may try industrial psychology, or psychotherapy. My father is a general physician. I may follow the same line. But this does not exhaust my interests. There are certain questions which do not change with time. I understand you have some answers to such questions and this made me come to see you.
Nisagardatta Maharaj: I wonder whether I am the right man to answer your questions. I know little about things and people. I know only that I am, and that much you also know. We are equals.
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Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #1694 on: March 11, 2013, 11:38:43 AM »
Questioner: Of course I know that I am. But I do not know what it means.
Nisargadatta Maharaj: What you take to be the ‘I’ in the ‘I am’ is not you. To know that your are is natural, to know what you are is the result of much investigation. You will have to explore the entire field of consciousness and go beyond it. For this you must find the right teacher and create the conditions needed for discovery. Generally speaking, there are two ways: external and internal. Either you live with somebody who knows the Truth and submit yourself entirely to his guiding and molding influence, or you seek the inner guide and follow the inner light wherever it takes you. In both cases your personal desires and fears must be disregarded. You learn either by proximity or by investigation, the passive or the active way. You either let yourself be carried by the river of life and love represented by your Guru, or you make your own efforts, guided by your inner star. In both cases you must move on, you must be earnest. Rare are the people who are lucky to find somebody worthy of trust and love. Most of them must take the hard way, the way of intelligence and understanding, of discrimination and detachment (viveka-vairagya). This is the way open to all.
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