Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 173448 times)

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #255 on: May 25, 2012, 05:51:52 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,
           :) You are perfectly right!
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Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #256 on: May 25, 2012, 05:53:31 PM »
Dear i (all)

"if you know the Self, there is no need to remove doubts at all......"

the fact is SELF IS ALREADY KNOWN TO YOU

"You are That"

What can confuse "You", what can hide "You" what can delude "You"

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #257 on: May 25, 2012, 05:53:53 PM »
I believe its not wise to put a condition... if this happens then ill consider myself awakened.
Right now, here ... everyone is Awakened. This idea that i am not awakened or that i am not the Self yet needs to be banished first. firmly holding onto the fact that i am the Self.

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #258 on: May 25, 2012, 06:09:51 PM »
Yes.

1. During waking state I know I am
2. During dream I know I am
3. During deep sleep I don't know I am

1 and 2 the nescience comes from the fact that what I think I am is not true. In 3 nescience comes from the fact that I don't even percept an illusiory "I am"-ness. Am I right? Then why we are not able according to Bhagavan to realize who we are or to do Self-inquiry during sleep or in 'another after-death world'? Sometimes in dream we do things, intellectual, emotional, even solve problems. Then why should dream cannot be useful? There is even dream techniques who aim 'unfolding' our consciousness and try to solve some problems. It is not just a question of curiosity!
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Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #259 on: May 25, 2012, 06:10:26 PM »
Dear i (all)

i want bring a paradigm shift to all the quest.

Instead of being in search of Self. Try to prove for yourself how the Self is not known this moment.

Try to prove ignorance, for yourself and see, if it can be proved, bring out those discernment, so and so reasons, hence it is true that I am ignorant.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #260 on: May 25, 2012, 06:13:44 PM »
Quote
Dear i (all)

i want bring a paradigm shift to all the quest.

Instead of being in search of Self. Try to prove for yourself how the Self is not known this moment.

Try to prove ignorance, for yourself and see, if it can be proved, bring out those discernment, so and so reasons, hence it is true that I am ignorant.

Right now the Self is known for me. I know I am. Yes, there is ignorance, wrong identification but at least I know I am. The problem for me is that it is not known when I am asleep. The same is for the people in coma, may be and for the dead people.
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Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #261 on: May 25, 2012, 06:15:37 PM »
Dear i

3. During deep sleep I don't know I am

Is there any way you can know yourself? the following points too, are not true -

1. During waking state I know I am
2. During dream I know I am

Can eye see itself? Can tongue taste itself?

when you say You know I am in waking and dream states, you are not referring to Self but you are referring to your body.

Infact, 'You' are the same even in Case scenario 1, 2 and 3 presented by you as above.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #262 on: May 25, 2012, 06:19:08 PM »
Yes, but I know I am (exist).
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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #263 on: May 25, 2012, 06:20:06 PM »
Right now the Self is known for me. I know I am. Yes, there is ignorance, wrong identification but at least I know I am. The problem for me is that it is not known when I am asleep. The same is for the people in coma, may be and for the dead people.

Dear i,

Please discern, You say, Self is known to you. Can Self be an object of knowing any time? Please carefully see, what are you referring as "I am"

Immediately you say, there is ignorance, wrong identification, but you say, at least you know, I am - If you know there is wrong identification, ignorance, then in which way you are ignorant? in which way are you having wrong identification?

The one that says that there is ignorance, that there is wrong identification, is himself not ignorance, himself is not in delusion of any wrong identification.

As per the sleep query, i have mentioned my discernment in my previous post

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #264 on: May 25, 2012, 06:21:31 PM »
Yes, but I know I am (exist).

Dear i,

take out the "but' YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW YOURSELF WITHOUT ANY MEDIUM OF KNOWING.

YOU, ARE THERE IN ALL THREE STATES. not the I am you said you were in the case scenarios. They are not "YOU"

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #265 on: May 25, 2012, 06:21:43 PM »
Dear Nagaraj, srkudai,

I agree that Self is ever realized. There is no need to attain anything. There is no bondage, no one bound, no moksha, no mukti etc.,

But member like Ramana is a beginner. He has got some genuine questions. The questions have to be answered in a conventional
manner. If one suddenly says: You are That. Summa Iru, it will put cold water into his enthusiasm to know things. Sri Bhagavan
of course said on a few occasions the direct answer, as above. But He said with a gaze that was penetrating into the hearts of
the devotees and made the quieten the mind, at least in that period of time. Then slowly with Sri Bhagavan's Grace, they understood
the direct path. Whereas in Forum, I cannot look at the questioners with Sri Bhagavan's gaze because I am myself is not fully
successful in self inquiry and I am somewhat in the middle level.

Hence all answers are given in a traditional manner, with of course, including sayings of Sri Bhagavan here and there.

*

One Andhra devotee was sent by Swami Yogananda to Sri Bhagavan because that devotee would not progress in yoga method.
This gentleman came. And asked Sri Bhagavan: What should I do to attain Self Realization? Sri Bhagavan after some silence, gazed
at him and then  told him: Vandha vazhiye po...."Go by the way in which you came."  The Andhra devotee did not understand anything. He was slightly disappointed thinking that Sri Bhagavan was asking him to back to Andhra! After some days, Muruganar to whom he told his predicament answered: You have been given Upadesam. Sri Bhagavan says: Go by the way in which you came!  This means seek
the way inwardly the place where ego sprouted first.  The Andhra devotee understood this and began in earnest self attention
and he succeeded.   The Gaze did all the trick.

Srii Bhagavan's Gaze (which is nothing but transmission of Grace) helped him.

*

When Kunju Swami came first, he found Sri Bhagavan heating rice powder with water to make a kanji. Three squirrels were
waiting for the food. They were closeted in a basket. Sri Bhagavan said: Catch all the three. Then He said Leave one by one.
The squirrels left one by one took share of their kanji. One squirrel urinated. Sri Bhagavan said: Clean up. Kunju Swami cleaned
up the place with his towel.

Now what does it mean to all of us? Simple instructions to feed the squirrels.

Kunju Swami already steeped in Jnana Marga understood.

Catch the three = the three are ego, karma and maya. Catch hold of all the three.

Leave one by one = leave ego, karma and maya one by one.

Clean up the place = clean up your mind without any trace of these.

Kunju Swami took these as Maha vakyas and pursued his sadhana.


Arunachala Siva.             

Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #266 on: May 25, 2012, 06:26:49 PM »
But member like Ramana is a beginner. He has got some genuine questions. The questions have to be answered in a conventional manner. If one suddenly says: You are That. Summa Iru, it will put cold water into his enthusiasm to know things.

Dear i,

there is none beginner or advanced. Sri Bhagavan spoke to Monkeys, dogs and cows. Infact, it is Ramana's question, that is inviting these answers. Can Self confuse any anybody? Does Self require any qualification and advancement to be known?

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #267 on: May 25, 2012, 06:27:59 PM »
Dear ramana,

Merely knowing the Self would not help. One should own it. How to own it? You have to remove the cobwebs surrounding it.
These cobwebs are ignorance, vasanas, the idea that Self can be attained with thoughts, etc., etc.,  If these cobwebs
are removed (and that is Sadhana), then the house is clean and you can really own it!

Sri Bhagavan said once: What is there to real-ize it? You should only remove the obstacles. Then it is Real. There is no realization.

Though ever realized,  Atma is realized really, only when anatma vikaranam gets removed.

Arunachala Siva.

     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #268 on: May 25, 2012, 06:29:42 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Only Ramana should answer as to what is obstructing him. Because of such obstructions only, such questions arose from him.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #269 on: May 25, 2012, 06:32:43 PM »
Only Ramana should answer as to what is obstructing him. Because of such obstructions only, such questions arose from him.

Dear i,

in the same way, Ramana can speak for himself. He will certainly work his way out. in the same way we are no body to say somebody is beginner or advanced, and we are nobody to say what sort of answers need be told to him. All are same, no matter what.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!