Fundamental question about Mind!

[Hari]

- What must I do to be liberated, Master?
- Just surrender.
- How to do that?
- Give up all your desires, hopes, dreams, fears, plans, etc.!
- Why should I do that?
- Because they are unreal.
- If it is so then how can I give up all of them?
- By two means - by searching for the Cause of them or by surrendering the results of all your actions to It.
- Is the Cause real?
- The Cause is the only thing that is real. Actually there is no Cause because there is no Its derivatives. In the absence of the one part of the polarity there is no polarity at all. Then how could we even say that the Cause is Cause. Cause for what? In this sense of the word the Cause is also unreal. The Real is alway real as It is! It has no names or forms. It is not a product of concepts, speculations, doctrines, philosophies and so on. Reality cannon be achived because It is always existent - during wakefulness, dream, sleep, death, coma, heaven, hell, astral dimensions, you name it. The cause you don't realize It is because you identify yourself with Its projection called the Mind. The Mind creates phenomenal world and the dualities. The Mind is the cause for our misery but It is also our only way for liberation. To fall apart the Kingdom of Maya we must kill the King. This imaginable King can be killed only by imaginable poison. So never underestimate the Mind.
- All this saddens me. My parents, my friends, my house, my girlfriend, my future children seem to be illusion. I feel like I am alone in this world.
- Yes, you are. The cause for this loneliness is because you skip the most important part - your perception of yourself is also illusion. Find out who is this who is feeling lonely. If you do and more questions arise then you can with clear conscience cast away everything that I have told you.
- Master, please, I beg you will all my heart, show me the Reality.
- Oh, my son, the Reality is here, now, but you cannot see it because other things which you consider more important stay on your way. Clean up the dust on the Mirror and will see again what You are - the most magnificent entity of all the worlds, the Cause of everything, the God Almighty. Yes, the God you pray every single day is your own Self!

[Hari]

All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today we have not attained.

I share your opinion 100 % percents!

[Nagaraj]

When we say something about Sri Bhagavan's life and teachings, we are saying with our buddhi and not out of experience.
This is where the huge gap lies. When Guru says something, he says with AruL (as I quoted Tayumanavar in some other post
today). We cannot give AruL or pass on Grace since we are ourselves seeking AruL and Grace from guru.  In that sense, we
are all beginners.

Dear i,

Why cant one discern that what one is saying, Sri Bhagavan Himself is saying through somebody? after all are we all not mere instruments of Him?

I remember a story, a person, who was a devotee, having received instructions from his Guru, leads a decent life, His Guru taught him to see God in everything, so he believed the words of his Guru and began seeing God in everything. One day, a mad elephant was headed towards a village destroying everything and killing everybody on the way. This person, stood boldly before the elephant assuming that  elephant is also God, and remained fixed. Another person who was close by, shouted, please run, please run, but he refused to listen to him, and said to him that this is also God and He will not harm him. Then having hurt his bones royally, later after death, when he goes up to heavens and meets God, he questions him as to why He did not save him, as he was following the revelation of Guru and scriptures, to which God replied, dear son, everything is God, no doubt about it, but, did you not see God in the person who asked you to run? but you disregarded God in that person.

This is Arul. Arul is discernment.

If one can only see value in words of Guru alone, and ignores the truth said by others, then it would be as the above story.

"isavasyam idam sarvam yat kim ca jagatyam jagat: "

All this that you perceive, see, or contact through the sense organs is enveloped by God."

Infact, true Bhaktas, True Sadhakas have to see oneself as a Sadhakas and all others as Iswara Swarupa. This i discern.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

[Nagaraj]

All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today we have not attained.

I share your opinion 100 % percents!

Dear i,

i only discern and ask both yourselves whether we can use the word "WE" when you both express your views as All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today we have not attained.

One can talk about just oneself. One cannot represent for all.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

[Hari]

i only discern and ask both yourselves whether we can use the word "WE" when you both express your views as All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today we have not attained.

One can talk about just oneself. One cannot represent for all.

Until there is "I" which to speak for him/herself where is the problem to say we? We cannot escape that. We cannot say "Others doesn't exist but I exist". This is wrong. Or you don't exist and all others don't exist too (as in deep sleep or Atma-jnana state) or we all exist. "Only I exist (ego)" is called solipsism and we have discussed it somewhere in our previous posts.

[Nagaraj]

Dear i,

All i am saying is, if one wears a blue coloured spectacles, all that is seen appears to looks in blue, but it is not so, it is because of our vision that everything appears as blue.

In the following observation of Sri Subramanian Sir and also your sharing this observation:

All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today we have not attained.

each one can only say as follows:

All of us can attain Sri Bhagavan's state one day or other. But today i have not attained.

This is all i am saying.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

[Hari]

You know that we have not attained your Goal yet. If we were we would not be here. So yes, Sri Subramanian used in place the word "we". I understand you, Sri Nagaraj but I have some concerns about you. You always avoid the use of "we", "others" and so on. Why are you doing this? Do you have any doubt that we are existent as much as you are? Or are you trying to put a wall between you and the world? You always stress importance to the "I" but don't forget you are not this "I"! Your point of view is not independent. Do not fool yourself. You think that your perception of the world is important and the world is what you think you are. But again never forget that the world always can change your way of thinking and perception, as Sri Bhagavan have done it for you!

[Nagaraj]

Dear i,

unless oneself discerns, one will be hit by contradictions and confusions. All these are of no help to you. please be concerned about yourself, i appreciate your concern for me, but it is of least importance for you more than it is of any importance here.

Even now, instead of seeing things with proper discrimination, discernment, you are just deviating here and there. I just wish you the best!

Prostrations to Bhagavan

[Hari]

I have not doubted even for a second that you wish all the best to all of us. Don't you see? What you do for me is enough. I don't need more. For you me you, as well the others here, are what I need. So let's don't divide that that has already is divided. I can find help from many things. Sometime some very unexpected situations, people, animals, plants, religion and philosophies have given me help, even without they don't know it. So let be a little more optimistic and open-minded to all commentaries and opinions and to try to find the best we can extract from them for our spiritual path.

Glory to Lord Ramana!

[Ravi.N]

Friends,
Communication is an art and one of the key thing is listening.To listen there must be an open mind that is not preoccupied with itself.
An excerpt from a song  -'Sound of silence'(By Simon & Garfunkel) :
"People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share!"
Whatever we may think ourselves to be or otherwise,dare anyone deny that one is a human being?Why then fight shy of speaking like a human?
Namaskar.

[Ravi.N]

Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
TRAILOKYA: "It is very difficult to get rid of the ego. People only think they are free
from it."
MASTER: "Gauri would not refer to himself as 'I' lest he should feel egotistic. He would
say 'this' instead. I followed his example and would refer to myself as 'this' instead of 'I'.
Instead of saying, 'I have eaten,' I would say, 'This has eaten.' Mathur noticed it and said
one day: 'What is this, revered father? Why should you talk that way? Let them talk that
way. They have their egotism. You are free from it; you don't have to talk like them.'
The Master freely used 'this','I' 'We' -all forms of expression when he talked to devotees.He was not bound by any image whatsoever.Truly like a child!
Namaskar.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Ravi,

For Jnanis who have transcended the ego, these usages I, We are of no significance vis-vis ego.

When Mother Azhagamma came to stay with Him, Sri Bhagavan did not even call her Amma. After devotees pointed out that
this was unfair, He started calling Mother Azhagamma - Amma.  Perhaps this is only to make her feel that she is not only the Mother
of Sri Bhagavan, but all devotees, even animals and birds, even downcastes who came to drink water and sometimes even sought
food when they were quite hungry.

Arunachala Siva.   

[Ravi.N]

Subramanian/Friends,
Here is an Excerpt from 'Letters from Sri Ramanasramam':

(14) CONVENTIONAL RESPECT,12th December, 1945
One morning, during the usual conversations the topic turned on Bhagavan’s mother coming away to live with him
and on her manner of life, and Bhagavan spoke to us as follows:
“Mother began coming here frequently and staying with me for long periods. You know I always address even beasts
and birds in a respectful manner. In the same way, I used to address Mother also with the respectful form of speech. It
then occurred to me that I was doing something hurtful. So I gave up the practice and began addressing her in the
familiar way. If a practice is natural and has become habitual you feel uncomfortable at changing it. But anyway what do
these bodily things matter?” He spoke with deep feeling and my eyes filled with tears.
Before the dawn of youth appeared on his face he had relinquished all worldly desires, and with Divine
desire he hastened to the holy Arunachala where he reigns in the Kingdom of Eternal Bliss. How can one speak of
the enormous fortune of that mother, in having had the privilege of being called ‘Amma’ (mother) by such a son?
In the Vedas, the mother holds the first claim for worship: “Mathru devo bhava” (Let mother be your God). Even so,
the beauty of it is that Bhagavan felt it unnatural for him to address her in the respectful form. If he addressed her
so, would she not feel hurt? She felt satisfied only if he addressed her as “Mother.” Perhaps Bhagavan felt that
he ought not to wound her feelings in so small a matter.
Such is our Bhagavan,so utterly simple.The Great ones are always open and flexible to change their ways!
Namaskar.

[Hari]

For Jnanis who have transcended the ego, these usages I, We are of no significance vis-vis ego.

Sri Subramanian, Ravi and others. This reminded me about a story of Bhagavan Adi Shankara:

Once Adi Sankara is walking through a street saying "Sivoham" ,"Sivoham", a man behind Him repeated the same. To teach him a lesson Adi Sankara took boiling tin and swallowed it and continued His walk as usual. The man behind Him is afraid to see this unexpected event and stopped imitating Adi Sankara.

The difference between 'us' and a Jnani is the Realization of the Self. Today many people talk about Self-realization, write books, establish institutions, make organizations, lectures, cross around the world and so on. But how many of them are as Adi Shankara? How many of them would drink the boiling tin? How could we possibly know who Guru is 'authentic' and who is not? Thank goodness we all here admit that we are ignorant people doing our best for the given moment to move forward to the realization of what we are.

[Ravi.N]

Ramana,
yes that is a very wonderful story of sri Adi Sankara teaching the disciple! I am reminded of a similiar story in Papa Ramdas life when he was living on a single boiled potato for a month or so.His disciple Ramcharandas followed suite by imitating his master,and after just two days did not have the strength to even get up!He then learnt how imitating the Great ones without living the Truth they Lived is destabilizing!
Namaskar.