Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 173453 times)

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #315 on: May 27, 2012, 04:46:16 PM »
Dear Ravi,
      :) ITs the other way round that friend was telling another friend "You are a Man! "! :) . Taht we are all men!
Lion telling a lion which was brought up amongst sheeps : U r a lion. The Lion is convinced.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #316 on: May 27, 2012, 04:49:14 PM »
Dear Ravi,
        :) The stamp of ego is not determined by an activity. Its how one may interpret it!
Ramana did something ... u may interpret it as ego or just avoiding something ! :) its all about how one interprets an activity.

Why someone did something ... only he can tell. And Even if ego makes a person do something ... he is supposed to undo that ego with "I AM BRAHMAN" understanding [otherwise u will talk abt men and women :) ] ... and not dispense of the "I AM BRAHMAN" understanding for future ... if its ego, its more important that he understands

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #317 on: May 27, 2012, 04:50:49 PM »
udai/friends,
An excerpt from Talks with Ramana Maharshi:
When the one Real ‘I’ remains alone, it will not be saying; “I am
Brahman”.
Does a man go on repeating “I am a man”? Unless
he is challenged, why should he declare himself a man? Does
anyone mistake oneself for a brute, that he should say “No. I am
not a brute; I am a man”? Similarly, Brahman or ‘I’ being alone,
there is no one there to challenge it and so there is no need to be
repeating “I am Brahman”
.

What keeps insisting 'I am Brahman' is the ego. :)
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #318 on: May 27, 2012, 04:54:48 PM »
Dear friends, I don't believe that statements like soham, sivoham, aham brahmasmi, tat tvam asi and so on are correct when we talk about the so called 'realization'. All these are just dual expression of the Truth. "I am He" - 2 persons, "I am Shiva" - 2 persons, "I am Brahman" - 2 persons, "You are That" - subject and an object. Everything is reflection of the ego. But a firm conviction "I am Brahman" to sannyasi wuould very helpful because it diverts him from what he is not - the body, the world and so on. At the end sannyasi must give up even the idea that he is Brahman and to let himself to be what He IS! Honestly I don't think that these sacred phrases are for everyone!
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srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #319 on: May 27, 2012, 04:55:28 PM »
Dear Ravi,
      :) If the Real "I" remains alone ... it wont lose its Reality if it says "I AM BRAHMAN" :) ... even when the body - mind voice out "I AM BRAHMAN" ... one does not say "I AM SAYING IT". Kartrtvam is absent.
If you read Ramana ... he himself said several times "I AM SELF" ... that did not make him lose his Self.

Also : A jnani cannot be recognized by his activities

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #320 on: May 27, 2012, 04:56:35 PM »
Dear Ramana,
     :) dont believe it. Be it. The saints were no fools to present those statements. They have to be lived.
One may use the words as reminders during sadhana.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #321 on: May 27, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »
Dear Ravi and srkudai,

Sri Bhagavan says in Ulladu Narpadu Verse 32:

When the Vedas have declared, 'Thou art That'  -- not to seek and find the nature of the Self and abide in it, but to think
'I am that, not this'' - is want of strength. Because, That abides for ever as the Self.

Ulladu is Sat Vastu. uLLal  is 'thinking'.

Ulladu can be attained only by abiding with it and not thinking about it.

uLLal or unaRchi is mental activity, feeling.

To abide in the Self without thinking is abidance.

Arunachala Siva.   

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #322 on: May 27, 2012, 05:01:34 PM »
Quote
dont believe it. Be it. The saints were no fools to present those statements. They have to be lived.
One may use the words as reminders during sadhana.

Yes. The saints has said that mainly because of us - their pupils. They had in some way to explain, even intellectually, dualistically what they have experienced. But I am sure that They have realized that They are not this or that. So when they were referring "I am Brahman", they were meaning that which is beyond words and explanations. All words, names and so on are from the mind, for the mind.
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srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #323 on: May 27, 2012, 05:03:47 PM »
Yes Abide as Self. Thats it. But if u try, the mind will try to draw u out. Thats when u have to revert back.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #324 on: May 27, 2012, 05:11:22 PM »
Dear Subramanaian ,
            :) If you have read Annamalai Swami's Final Talks: Pls refer Page 77

about the story of a person who said his wife was widowed.

and he continues ... "Then we grieve about our state, lamenting "I am bound, I am unenlightenened; I am not free"
and even when the guru comes along and says "u r the Self; u r free. Why do u..."

u tell him" ... i trust my senses / mind..."

:)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #325 on: May 27, 2012, 05:46:08 PM »
Dear srkudai,

The story told by Annamalai Swami is to highlight that one does not believe in the Real state (that he is alive and his wife is
not a widow) but thinks because somebody said, Your wife is widowed.

In the same vein, even though we are the Self, we THINK THAT WE HAVE NOT REALIZED THE SELF.  Even if one thinks He has realized
the Self, he has not realized. Because one cannot attain the Self by thinking about it.

The thinking obstructs our experience.  That is why in Ulladu Narpadu, Sri Bhagavan  said: The Self is there ever as the one
and only Satvastu within you. But you experience it without thinking.

Ulladu Narpadu, first benedictory verse says:

Can there be awareness of Existence as 'I am' (astitvam) but for the existence of Sat (Reality) ' That which is'? As
the Sat  - That which is' abides in the Heart, free of thoughts; It is called the Heart. Who is the one who meditates on It
and how? Know then,m to be as 'It is' in the Heart, free of thoughts, is to contemplate on It truly.

Both unrealized and realized have this Sat Vastu in Heart. But the unrealized tries to think about it and it can never be
achieved by him.  The Realized one simply abides in It, without any effort towards thinking about it.

Ahamj Sphurana is the Sat.

Unarvu is experience. Unarchi is thinking or feeling.

Arunachala Siva.           

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #326 on: May 27, 2012, 06:00:49 PM »
Friends,
Sages have advised in many ways to suit different temperaments and maturity level of the seekers.It is upto us to put into practise.One thing is clear-as long as the ego is not subdued,nothing is of any avail.One has nothing to prove to others.
Even when the Sages advocated 'I am Brahman' as an aid,it is only to employ it as an aid in one's Sadhana not to go about proving it to others.It is the prompting of the Ego that does that ,and one is utterly blind to that. :)
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #327 on: May 27, 2012, 06:08:11 PM »
Friends,
In this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the Master clearly points the difference between a Jnani(Intellectual)and a VijnAni(Realized one):
MASTER (to the devotees): "There is a difference between, a sadhu endowed with jnana
and one endowed with vijnana
. The jnani sadhu has a certain way of sitting. He twirls his
moustache and asks the visitor, 'Well, sir! Have you any question to ask?'
But the man who
always sees God and talks to Him intimately has an altogether different nature. He is
sometimes like an inert thing, sometimes like a ghoul, sometimes like a child, and
sometimes like a madman.

"When he is in samadhi, he becomes unconscious of the outer world and appears inert. He
sees everything to be full of Brahman-Consciousness; therefore he behaves like a ghoul. He
is not conscious of the holy and the unholy. He does not observe any formal purity. To him
everything is Brahman. He is not aware of filth as such. Even rice and other cooked food
after a few days become like filth.

This distinction is something that is unmistakeable.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #328 on: May 27, 2012, 06:17:01 PM »
Dear Ravi,


This reminds me a story. I think it refers to Sorupananda and Tattuvaraya or some other pair of contemporary saints.

Once a rich landlord had arranged for a feast to everyone, including sadhus. The Sadhu who has realized the Self
did not attend. But he went to the left over leaf plates and was eating the food from the leaves along with dogs
which were sharing the food!

The other saint who has got pomp and glory but no Swarupa Jnanam, was coming on a palanquin to eat food from
the rich lord's party. As soon as he saw the Sage 1, he jumped out of palanquin and said: What Sir? Is it not
atrocious? You are taking food from the left over leaf plates along with the company of dogs?

The Sage 1 replied: Is it also not atrocious to come to a feast on a palanquin with four people carrying your body?

The Sage 2 became speechless.

Seshdari Swamigal used to take food along with dogs and other beggars.

Sri Bhagavan took food in various manner:

1. Bhiksha food in the initial stages.

2. Mother Azhagamma's cooked food in Skandasramam.

3. Regular food along with many many devotees in the present foot hills Asramam.

Arunachala Siva.     

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #329 on: May 27, 2012, 06:28:20 PM »
udai,
"A jnani cannot be recognized by his activities"
Sure.Yet an ajnani is easily recognized by his activities.It has the stamp of ego written all over it. :)
Namaskar.