Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 173475 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #330 on: May 27, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Yes. A Jnani can never be found only by his activities. When Sri Bhagavan by mistake stamped on the hornet of bees,
the bees came out in large numbers, and Sri Bhagavan was simply showing His legs, so that bees would sting it. Because
He has knowingly or unknowingly done harm to the bees. The surprising thing is, the bees stung only His  left leg and thigh,
since that leg only had stamped on the hornet. Pazhani Swami who later applied oil and removed the sting one by one with
a forceps said: Bhagavan! Why did not come away immediately? Sri Bhagavan said: How can I? I had done a mistake. I should
take the punishment!

Muruganar later years has written a poem about this incident.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #331 on: May 27, 2012, 07:13:32 PM »
Subramanian,
Great ones like sri Ramakrishna and sri Bhagavan are just incomparable.As  Professor John Henry Wright of Harvard University told Swami Vivekananda: "To ask you, Swami, for your credentials is like asking the sun about its right to shine."
Even foolish and insensitive people felt the unmistakeable power of the Presence.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #332 on: May 27, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »
Dear Ravi,

About the hornet incident:

Muruganar sings in verse 815 of Guru Vachaka Kovai:

pacchaiilai thooRu padarntha pudhar enRu eNNi
vaichidungAl veenga vari kathaNdu* kottalume
nicchayamAi Venkata nin nenjam oppi seithAR pol
thaRcheyaAi nerntha thavRRukku iranglenna?

O Venkata, you stamped on the hornet's nest but it was accidental and not voluntary. (* kathaNdu = bees).
Why did you show your legs as if you have deliberately done that act? Why are you regretting for the mistake
not deliberately done?

Sri Bhagavan replied:

Guru Vachaka Kovai - Sri Bhagavan's Verse 16:

pacchilaikat koode padarnthathan koodu ulaiya
vaicchidu kAl veenga varik kathaNdu kottidinum
thaRcheyalAi nerntha thavRenum thAnirangum
accheyalum inRel avan manathin thanmai enne?

What is the true nature of one's mind if he does not sympathize for even accidental stamping on hornet's nest?
Should not one show compassion for the bees and take the punishment even if it is accidental? It not what is
the nature of his mind?

   
*

In today's India, where scam to the extent of Rs. 2.76 lac crores happen even without the slightest regret from those
who had perpetrated it, such actions of Maharshi will look only as a madman's act. What to do? Globalization's first
casualty is Indian's honesty and integrity.

*

In Bangalore, one super market owner drove out about 70 retail vendors of vegetables, fruits, and flowers, from business,
in the same road, by allegedly bribing, some corporator, who ordered removal of these shops, since they were selling on
platforms.

Now the supermarket has got more sales and they sell at higher prices since there is no competitor.

*

Satyam eva Jayate!

Arunachala Siva.     
 

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #333 on: May 27, 2012, 07:20:27 PM »
Subramanian,
The Story of Sri Bhagavan stepping on the Hornet's nest is indeed a moving one.If one just contemplates this alone,one learns a great deal.I have posted it in the Thread - Stories on Bhagavan.
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #334 on: May 28, 2012, 10:23:14 AM »
Dear Ravi,
        :) u r contradicting urself.
if an ajnani can be recognized from activities... then he who is not an ajnani becomes a jnani.

jnana / ajnana is not about an activity. Mohammad married several times. Jesus remained a celibate and yet spread the religion. Ramana remained stone like, never cared to spread any religion. Sikh prophets were warriors. Rama , janka were kings.

Its all in your interpreation. If you want to interpret some action as ajnani's action u may... for your own ego satisfaction.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #335 on: May 28, 2012, 10:29:12 AM »
Dear Subramanian,
    this idea that thoughts obstruct abiding as Self is incorrect.. here is annamalai swami on that:

Everything we see in this waking state is a dream. These dreams are our thoughts made manifest. Bad thoughts make bad dreams and good thoughts make good dreams and if u have no thoughts, u dont dream at all. But even if u do dream, u must understand that ur dream is also the Self. u dont have to supress thoughts or be absolutely thoughtelss to abide as Self. IF you know that even your waking and sleeping dreams are Self, the thoughts and the dreams they produce can go on.


Final Talks: page 24. [for you i quote. I myself do not depend on quotes from others. Abidance in Self is itself the best way to see things.]


srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #336 on: May 28, 2012, 10:32:31 AM »
One needs to stop believing one is non-Self. If someone speaks of sadhana without taking oneself to be the Self, one is fooling himself and also the others. Here again is a quote from Annamalai Swami Fintal talks [page 6]

Quote
"how to give up the false idea that mind is real ?"

The same way that u give up any wrong idea. u simply stop believing it. if this does not happen spontaneously when you hear the truth from a teacher, keep telling urself "I am not the mindl i am not the mind. There is no mind, there is no mind. Consciousness Alone Exists". If you have a firm conviction that this is the truth, one day this firm conviction will mature to a point where it becoems ur direct experience.

-------------> if someone is not ready to agree that he is Awarness / Self and not mind ... !! what sadhana would they do ?

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #337 on: May 28, 2012, 10:34:31 AM »
And most important regarding killing mind, page 1, Annamalai Swami Final talks.

"Mind  is like a shadow. Attempts to catch it and control it are futile. They are just shadows chasing shadows. ..."

And the last page of the same book ... wonderful line:
page 96:
"If the mind does not exist, it cannot die... either quickly or slowly"
---> Firmness of Conviction is must.


And all this is from annamalai swami. not me. I quote them for your reference alone.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 10:36:10 AM by srkudai »

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #338 on: May 28, 2012, 10:40:11 AM »
udai,
"jnana / ajnana is not about an activity"
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Haven't you noticed that, if you read a little English, you at once begin to utter English words: Foot fut
it mit? Then you put on boots and whistle a tune, and so on. It all goes together. Or, if a
scholar studies Sanskrit, he will at once rattle off Sanskrit verses. If you are in bad
company, then you will talk and think like your companions. On the other hand, when you
are in the company of devotees, you will think and talk only of God.

There is a very definitive way in which the upadhi of an ajnani manifests through his actions.
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #339 on: May 28, 2012, 10:43:23 AM »
Dear Ravi,
        :) Something happens and u interpret it as "ajnana" thats all.
its your choice whether u want to interpret it that way or not. Some foolish fellow interpreted the actions of Sri Ramakrishna as homo-sexual in nature!! He was foolish, his interpretation was idiotic. So there is every possibility that even a jnani's actions can be misunderstood. ultimately its ur mind that interprets.

Who is not Self here. So why interpret everything as ajnani ? and then create grades and superiority ?


Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #340 on: May 28, 2012, 10:48:51 AM »
Udai,
No point in all this vain talk.Our actions speak louder than words. :)
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #341 on: May 28, 2012, 10:50:25 AM »
:) Actions dont speak.
u interpret those actions and that interpretation is what u consider a speach.

Swami Vivekananda said ... we see the world as we see ourselves. a child sees a snake but has no fear. because inside him there is no fear. Thats very correct.

:) Actions are dumb. And i do not interpret ur calling this "Suddenly vain" :) ... as ego or no ego.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #342 on: May 28, 2012, 11:19:39 AM »
Udai,
"Actions are dumb. And i do not interpret ur calling this "Suddenly vain"
Friend,It is not sudden as you think.I have not minced words in my previous posts as well in this thread and elsewhere.Only they have not been understood.Actions are not dumb as you would like to believe!
The 'Ego' requires a sledge hammer treatment sometimes. :)
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #343 on: May 28, 2012, 11:24:16 AM »
:) Actions never speak Ravi. u interpret them.
thats why ... Ramakrishna says the story of a person sitting under a tree on street.
one guy thinks "he was drunk whole night and so is lying there under the tree"
another person thinks "this guy should be a saint, he is meditating"
the guy's actions were nothing. he just was there.

people interpret according to their dispositions.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #344 on: May 28, 2012, 11:26:48 AM »
same thing with events. remember the story of a person who had 6 horses and one day they bring a 7th horse with them from the forest ? and people said "u r lucky" and the guy said "is that so ?"
and then his son broke his leg riding the horse. and people said "u r unlucky" and he said "is that so ?"
... i am sure u remember this story. its also from ramakrishna !
and so events/action have nothing to say.
thats why two people see the same thing and have different expressions and understandings.
someone meets ramakrishna and comes back saying he is just a mad man. another person comes back enlightened.
so its never the actions / events that speak. u subjectively interpret them according to ur disposition.