Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 195588 times)

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #345 on: May 28, 2012, 11:28:42 AM »
And so are all experiences.
u have experiences. and then u interpret them.

someone was seeing a light every day in meditation. and then he is told that seeing light is a sign of spirituality... now suddenly he becomes a "spiritual person" in his view. and he is proud!
so even experiences are dumb!!

someone eats a ladoo and feels happy. another person curses his fate for getting a ladoo ... he hates ladoo.
so its just the interpretation.

so actions, events and experiences are what u interpret them.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #346 on: May 28, 2012, 11:37:49 AM »
udai,
Let us realize Truth for ourself.
Here is a wonderful verse of Thayumanavar,ninth verse of 'Mounaguru Vannakkam' where he describes the subtle functioning of the Ego:
ஆங்கார மானகுல வேடவெம் பேய்பாழ்த்த
       ஆணவத் தினும்வலிதுகாண்
    அறிவினை மயக்கிடும் நடுவறிய வொட்டாது
       யாதொன்று தொடினும் அதுவாய்த்
தாங்காது மொழிபேசும் அரிகரப் பிரமாதி
       தம்மொடு சமானமென்னுந்
    தடையற்ற தேரிலஞ் சுருவாணி போலவே
       தன்னிலசை யாதுநிற்கும்
ஈங்காரெ னக்குநிகர் என்னப்ர தாபித்
       திராவணா காரமாகி
    இதயவெளி யெங்கணுந் தன்னரசு நாடுசெய்
       திருக்கும்இத னொடெந்நேரமும்
வாங்காநி லாஅடிமை போராட முடியுமோ
       மௌனோப தேசகுருவே
    மந்த்ரகுரு வேயோக தந்த்ரகுரு வேமூலன்
       மரபில்வரு மௌன குருவே!

Know ye, mightier far than accursed anava,
Is ahankara, the murderous hunter devil.
It will befog reason,
It will not let you know the right.
Whatever it touches
It identifies the self with that
And will say unbearable things.
It will claim that it is equal to
Hari, Hara, Brahma and the rest of the Gods.
It will stand like the axle pin
Of a moving car,
Itself immobile in the center of things.
It will proclaim itself:
''Who is here equal to me?''
And filled with Ravana like spirit
It will establish its tyrannous rule
In the domain of the heart.
How can this poor slave
Be contending with it all the time?
Oh! Guru that instructs in silentness!
Oh! Mantra Guru! Oh, Yoga Tantra Guru!
Mauna Guru that comes in the line of Mula the Holy!

It is important for a sadhaka to recognize the subtle ways of the Ego and focus on his Sadhana ,than be eager and go overboard to write commentaries and give talks how the Self alone is and trying to convince others! :)
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #347 on: May 28, 2012, 11:43:33 AM »
:) Now !! IF thats the case why did you discuss at all? if not here, elsewhere ?

its for oneself to recognize not for others to tell !!
one monitors one's own mind, not others'.

Who says writing is not a sadhana BTW ? :) thats ur new interpretation ?

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #348 on: May 28, 2012, 12:03:57 PM »
Further ... Firm Conviction that I AM SELF is liberation/realization of Truth.
if one dismisses this itself in the beginning ... what is the chance of Realizing it ?

Ego keeps popping up and convinces u otherwise and u have to undo that with I AM SELF not body/mind. Thats inquiry [again from annamalai swami... i dont want to keep quoting. one can refer final talks !]

if one does not do that ... sitting in meditation is also pampering of ego still!  nothing more!!


Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #349 on: May 28, 2012, 12:07:39 PM »
udai,
Why did I discuss?I am not against Discussion but obviously Arguementation does not help.
No monitoring here! :)

"Who says writing is not a sadhana BTW ?"
No harm in writing if it helps one;but why publish if it be Sadhana?What do you think of your commentary on Hanuman chalisa? :)

Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #350 on: May 28, 2012, 12:14:03 PM »
:)
1. I write coz i have something to share! :). I share my understanding. And its my sadhana and my problem :)! :) I do not seek approval for that anyways.  But i do not claim its ego work either.

My commentary Hanuman Chalisa is a Reveling in Awareness or Brahman! What else to think of it ? :)

2. How did you conclude arguments wont help ? some nice book told u ? What is discussion ? say something and everyone says "yes yes!" ? and then say something and people disagree ... it becomes argument!!?? then i would say arguments would do u more benefit.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #351 on: May 28, 2012, 12:35:06 PM »
udai,
"My commentary Hanuman Chalisa is a Reveling in Awareness or Brahman! What else to think of it ?"

You mean your first version or the latest one! :)
Brahman seems to be quite changeable. :)

Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #352 on: May 28, 2012, 12:40:35 PM »
:) Both ! Only different words :)!
Brahman is not changing ... the words change.

Sharing can be done different ways. The Revelings are just the same.

The second one presents the Same truth in a slightly different way.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #353 on: May 28, 2012, 12:45:01 PM »
Once you are able to abide as Self, everything you say will point to the same thing.
Perhaps some times u say it better, and other times not so well : as God wills.

:) and you are not the doer ... so u urself can read them and benefit. They come from u
u remain a mere instrument. and when that does not happen u remain reveling as u r !!

....
yatra yatra mano yaati tatra tatra samadhinah ... wherever the mind is, there is Samadhi!

Know you are Self , everything will fall in place.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #354 on: May 28, 2012, 12:48:05 PM »
udai,
I will wind up with this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Story of the Bhagavata scholar
MASTER: "Listen to a story. There was a king who used daily to hear the Bhagavata
recited by a pundit. Every day, after explaining the sacred book, the pundit would say to the
king, 'O King, have you understood what I have said?' And every day the king would reply,
'You had better understand it first yourself.' The pundit would return home and think: 'Why
does the king talk to me that way day after day? I explain the texts to him so clearly, and he
says to me, "You had better understand it first yourself." What does he mean?' The pundit
used to practise spiritual discipline. A few days later he came to realize that God alone is
real and everything else-house, family, wealth, friends, name, and fame-illusory. Convinced
of the unreality of the world, he renounced it. As he left home he asked a man to take this
message to the king: 'O King, I now understand.'

Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #355 on: May 28, 2012, 12:54:24 PM »
:)

King was always saying "u realize first" ... "first ur turn " ;) ? the bhagavata scholar was first not realized and then realized. king kept saying "u do it first" ??

Brother ... Self knowledge is not to judge the other person. Its for oneself. Even as i write ... those writings help some, some say they are not helpful... its just their respective outlooks. if one takes them well, one is freed. i know ... coz i see. dont judge. a realized person if he shares his understanding will not become unrealized. a realized person need not go away like that scholar. its silly to think only a particular lifestyle makes one wise. be wise and chose ur lifestyle.
suka was a tyagi, janaka and rama were kings managing huge kingdoms, krishna ws involved in all kinds of activities including companionship with women and politics and yet remained untouched. so ... lifestyle does not make one wise. be wise and chose ur lifestyle. be wise and then teach or remain silent. ur choice. dont think that someone is wise coz he is silent or someone else is unwise coz he speaks.

In your story the king was wasting his time.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2012, 12:57:31 PM by srkudai »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #356 on: May 28, 2012, 01:51:05 PM »
Dear skudai,

You say 'thoughts do not obstruct the Self.'  Now let us see what are thoughts -  This can be known only when you sit
for a silent meditation. If one is not a meditator for long time, then he will find thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is
only a bundle of thoughts. to attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts is unsuccessful. If one can by any means
abide in the Self, it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or Japa is prescribed. It is like giving a piece of
chain to an elephant to hold in its trunk. The trunk of the elephant is usually restless. It   puts it out in all directions when taken
out in the streets of the town. If given a chain to carry, the restlessness is checked. Similarly with the restless mind with a jungle
of thoughts is made to engage on a single thought. It thus becomes peaceful. It does not mean that peace is gained without a
prolonged struggle. The other thoughts must be fought out.

Now what is the root of all these thoughts? "I - thought". This I-thought is the starting point. This is called Ego. This ego must
be rooted out to attain the Peace or Realization. If one wants to abide in the thought free state, a struggle is inevitable. One
must fight one's way through  before regaining one's Primal State. If one succeeds in the fight and reaches the goal, the enemy
namely, the thoughts will all subside in the Self and disappear entirely. The thoughts are the enemy. They amount to the creation
of the ego, the world and even the universe. In their absence none of these are there. The Bliss of the Self is the single Being
only.

Dear srkudai, you have in the past posted some commentary on Upadesa Saram. What does Upadesa Saram say?



3. Distinterested action (nishkamya karmam)
Surrendered to the Lords
Purifies the mind and points
The way to Moksha.

4. This is certain.
Worship, praise, and meditation,
Being the work of body, speech and mind,
Are steps for orderly ascent.

5. Better than hymns of praise
Is repetition of the Name
Better low voiced than loud
But best of all
Is  meditation in the mind.

8. Better than viewing Him as Other
Indeed the noblest attitude of all
Is to hold Him as the 'I' within,
The very 'I'.

9. Abidance in pure Being
Transcending thought through love intense
Is the very essence
Of supreme devotion.

10. Absorption in the heart of Being
Whence we sprang,
Is the path of action, of devotion
Of union and of knowledge.

14. Breath controlled and thought restrained
The mind turned one way inward
Fades and dies.

15. Mind extinct, the mighty seer
Returns to his own natural being
And has no action to perform.

16. It is true Knowledge
For the mind to turn away
From outer objects and behold
Its own effulgent form,.

17. When unceasingly the mind
Scans its own form
There is nothing of the kind
For everyone the path direct is open.

18. Thoughts make up the mind;
And of all thoughts the 'I' thought is the root.
What is called the mind is but the notion of 'I'.

19. When one turns within and searches
Whence this 'I' thought arises
The shamed 'I' vanishes --
And the wisdom's quest begins,

20. Where this 'I' notion faded
Now there as I, as I, arises
The One, the very Self, the Infinite.

Arunachala Siva.   
 
       
   

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #357 on: May 28, 2012, 02:09:21 PM »
:) Dear Subramanian,
        I never denied Japa / any practise. I do not, coz i myself do japa every day.

I just posted what Annamalai swami said. Please read them again and see what he is saying. I have specifically quoted them here for you alone.

The only point to understand is all Sadhana is done with Conviction that I AM BRAHMAN. The sadhana only serves to firm up this conviction... once one is able to remain Effortlessly in it, sadhana is no more required.

Thoughts need not be fought against ! Fighting with thoughts is like fighting a shadow.

Without understanding I AM BRAHMAN and without firmly asserting it, there is no sadhana.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #358 on: May 28, 2012, 02:30:59 PM »
BTW, its not me who said "ur thoughts do not obstruct"... its directly from annamalai swami's final talks u can refer to it.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #359 on: May 28, 2012, 02:47:54 PM »
Dear srkudai,

I shall check up once again Final Talks and tell you in what context, Annamalai Swami said that.

Arunachala Siva.