Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 195578 times)

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #360 on: May 28, 2012, 02:51:34 PM »
The context is "when one sees the world as a dream ..."

i quoted it earlier.
The point is one needs to be firm ... not meek ... if i hold onto something ... it should be Drdha ... Firm ... Totally into it. Not half way. I am Self and not body-mind needs very strong assertion. one should not be fooled by mind when it says "if i get one more hour of sleep ill be better". one should be able to smile at it and say "u who ?"

:)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #361 on: May 28, 2012, 03:43:50 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Question:  How does the mind project this world I see in front of me?

A.S: Everything we see in this waking state is a dream. These dreams are our thoughts made manifest. Bad thoughts
make bad dreams and good thoughts make good dreams. And if you have NOT THOUGHTS, you don't dream at all. But
even if you do dream, you must understand THAT YOUR DREAM IS ALSO THE SELF. You don't have to suppress thoughts
or be absolutely thoughtless to abide as the Self. If YOU KNOW THAT EVEN YOUR WAKING AND SLEEPING DREAMS ARE THE
SELF, then the thoughts and the dreams they produce can go on. They will not be a problem for you any more. Just BE THE
SELF AT ALL TIMES. In this state, you will know that everything that appears to you is just a dream.

This is from Final Tallks, Page 24/25. What does Annamalai Swami say here? He says: IF YOU KNOW THAT EVEN YOUR WAKING
AND SLEEPING DREAMS ARE THE SELF, THEN THE THOUGHTS AND THE DREAMS CAN GO ON. THEY WILL NOT BE A PROBLEM ANYMORE.
JUST BE THE SELF AT ALL TIMES. IN THIS STATE YOU WILL KNOW THAT EVERYTHING THAT APPEARS TO YOU IS JUST A DREAM.

Thus, Annamalai Swami emphasizes that only when someone always knows that even waking state and dream states are the Self,
thoughts would can go on and it will not be a problem for him anymore. What he means therefore is: if you do not understand THAT ALL IS THE SELF, then the thoughts would obstruct your realization and you have to do something about the thoughts.

*

In page 36, ibid, he again says:

Bhagavan is always present, inside you and in front of you. IF YOU DON'T COVER THE VISION OF BHAGAVAN WITH YOUR EGO,
THAT WILL BE ENOUGH. The ego is the 'I am the body' idea. Remove this idea and you shine as the Self. That is the only thing
you need to do in this life. The various events of your life.... are all destined.

*

In Page 50 of ibid, he again says:

If the meditation is not continuous enough, the other part of the mind becomes predominant. You have to overpower this mind
that is taking you away from yourself by repeatedly doing this self enquiry.

*

In Page 53, ibid, he says:

The mind that we use for self inquiry is the pure sattvic mind. By using this sattvic mind we do self inquiry to remove the
impure mind, which is rajas and tamas. If you keep on doing self inquiry, with the sattvic mind, ultimately this sattvic mind
will be dissolved in the Self.

*

Again in page 65, ibid, he says:

Yes. 'I am the body' is not there during sleep. Everyone enjoys sleeping. And the reason we enjoy it is because THERE ARE
NOT THOUGHTS THERE. It is the thoughts that arise subsequently and CAUSED US ALL TROUBLE. There is no separate entity
during sleep because no thought  has arisen to create the image of one. When waking comes, this first rising thought I AM THE
BODY brings separation, doubts and confusion. If you can be without it in the waking state there will be KNOWLEDGE, 'I am Ramana,
I am Arunachala. Everything is myself.' IT IS JUST THIS LIMITING I AM THE BODY THOUGHT THAT KEEPS THIS KNOWLEDGE, THIS AWARENESS FROM YOU.

In the waking state, the Jnani has no limiting thoughts, no ego, that identifies with a name and a form. His state is crystal clear.
Ramana Bhagavan had NO EGO, NO LIMITING THOUGHTS, WHICH IS WHY HE KNEW HIMSELF TO BE THIS PEACE, THIS HAPPINESS.

*

Again in page 66, ibid:

If you completely avoid attachment to your body and mind, then all other attachments will vanish. Identify with That which is
neither body, nor mind and all your attachments will go. You can only put your attention on one thing at a time. While it is on
the mind or the body, it cannot be on the Self. Conversely, if you put attention on the Self and become absorbed in it, there will
be no awareness of the mind and body. .......Resist limiting thoughts. Replace them with thoughts such as All is my self. Everybody
is my self. All animals all things are my self. What you think, you become.

Arunachala Siva.                       

     

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #362 on: May 28, 2012, 03:51:51 PM »
So thats what i was saying. the problem is not thoughts. the problem is the idea that all this real.
if we associate reality with all this thats what makes thoughts a problem.

once convinced that all this is a dream... thoughts come and go away of themselves without creating any problems.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #363 on: May 28, 2012, 04:02:13 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"As long as a man analyses with the mind, he cannot reach the Absolute. As long as you
reason with your mind, you have no way of getting rid of the universe and the objects of the
senses-form, taste, smell, touch, and sound. When reasoning stops, you attain the
Knowledge of Brahman. Atman cannot be realized through this mind; Atman is realized
through Atman alone. Pure Mind, Pure Buddhi, Pure Atman-all these are one and the same.
"Just think how many things you need to perceive an object. You need eyes; you need light;
you need mind. You cannot perceive the object if you leave out anyone of these three. As
long as the mind functions how can you say that the universe and the 'I' do not exist?
"When the mind is annihilated, when it stops deliberating pro and con, then one goes into
samadhi, one attains the Knowledge of Brahman."

Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #364 on: May 28, 2012, 04:13:59 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"As long as the upadhi exists there is ignorance. 'I am a scholar', 'I am a jnani', 'I am
wealthy', 'I am honourable', 'I am the master, father, and teacher' -all these ideas are
begotten of ignorance
. 'I am the machine and You are the Operator' - that is Knowledge. In
the state of Knowledge all upadhis are destroyed. When the log is burnt up entirely, there is
no more sound; no heat either. Everything cools down. Peace! Peace! Peace!


Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #365 on: May 28, 2012, 04:15:11 PM »
:) Raviji ,
 1.          and annamalai swami says "question of killing mind does not arise if its not alive" :)
so u see a contradiction ?

BTW ... Reasoning has its function. Abiding as Self is may be not directly related. So therefore i do not reject reasoning and its utility! nor do i say reasoning leads to abidance. so the statement by sri ramakrishna does not really contradict anything i said.
what if ... Sri Ramakrishna said something ... u r interpreting it to mean something else or perhaps the writer is misrepresenting ?? then what ?

2. Do u think Ramakrishna is disagreeing to "Sruti-Yukti-Anubhavam" thing ?


srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #366 on: May 28, 2012, 04:17:06 PM »
oh! Knowledge means "I am machine and he is the operator" !! i see. meaning 2 always ! Good understanding !!

I like that Peace Peace Peace thing ... it shoud be piece 1 piece 2 and piece 3 as it sounds ! knowledge piece 1, me. knowledge piece 2 he. and knowledge piece 3 : relationship. i am machine and he operates.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #367 on: May 28, 2012, 04:18:47 PM »
And Most important: if all quotes of Ramana and Ramakrishna were false !! ?? then ? what would you have to say ?
Lets talk putting aside all that ... for they said something and u have taken something else from it! perhaps they would themselves be confused "how can this be so ? "

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #368 on: May 28, 2012, 04:19:13 PM »
udai,
Words are words.What do you mean by killing?
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #369 on: May 28, 2012, 04:20:56 PM »
Thats what i am asking: LOL, its not available ... how u kill ? its not there ! Not alive!

u did not still explain about sruti yukti anubhavam thing ! is ramakrishna saying against it ? then shankara and ramakrishna are contradicting !
Ramana says "first understand intellectually... " what abt that ?
can u comment ?

i

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #370 on: May 28, 2012, 04:25:19 PM »
udai,
A little while before you have said that you were not satisfied with your words (Hanuman Chalisa)and are again rewriting it.
The words of Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan are not like this!They never had to labour like it.These words can be used by others as they are always instinct with the power that expressed them.Please do not think that we are parroting them!There simply is no better way of expressing these deep and rich and meaningful words.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #371 on: May 28, 2012, 04:28:21 PM »
udai,
Killing means that it will not arise again and wander along its wanton ways.
That one is not aware of its existence does not mean that it is not there!It is very much there and alive and kicking! :)
Namaskar.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #372 on: May 28, 2012, 04:29:04 PM »
:) With respect to writing ... which is relative there is always a better way to do.
for example cooking. Ramana may say ... i cooked this better than yesterday.
writing is like that.

never did i say the first writing was not about SAT . From a long time my writings were accurate. but if given a chance, i would do it again in a different way only. coz the mind then and the mind now changes . Truth expressed will remain same.
but Self is changeless.
one should not confuse the changeless with changing. Thats viveka.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #373 on: May 28, 2012, 04:30:52 PM »
just coz a mirage is seen... its not "there"
just coz a dream is seen... its not "there"

seeing, and its "kicking" does not mean its there.

BTW, Annamalai swami says once convinced that this is a dream ... thoughts may be present. its fine.

now does this contradict ? :D LOL! its not samadhi right ? he is saying thoughts may continue if one is convinced its a dream!!

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #374 on: May 28, 2012, 04:34:59 PM »
And so ... here is the gamble.

1. if Ramakrishna is saying samadhi is a must: annamalai swami is saying once convinced that this world is a dream, thoughts may continue... it means some contradiction ?

2. Ramakrishna is saying reasoning not required. Shankara saying Sruti-yukti-Anubhavam are required !! contradiction!! ??


3. And Ramana says "First understand intellectually how otherwise will u be it" ... then again contradiction ?

4. If Ramana is saying he has no mind and he "Says" it... !! contradiction ... like i have no tongue.

So .... resolve these for urself. i have none of it.