Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 164522 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2012, 10:29:26 AM »
Dear Ravi,

I do not understand what your question is. Please elaborate.

Arunachala Siva.

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2012, 11:27:07 AM »
:) Raviji is not posting a question, I think. All he is saying is "I Alone AM" should be one's Anubhavam and not hearsay, If i am right.

:) its true that thoughts, words and action have to be harmonized. Its also true that Saint's words and actions have a conviction that goes with it. More important is also the fact that the disciple should be "Ready and Listening" without that there have been people who met Ramana himself and returned saying he does not know anything or he does not speak anything !

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2012, 04:39:03 PM »
Quote
dear i,

i agree with your concerns, both of yours, and the border line and so on.

But, even here, i just discern that the following. you can never talk for another absolutely, no matter what you may talk for the other, it is you very own. For instance, when Shri Ravi conveyed what you really meant in your original post, can never really convey what you have really conveyed, what ever he meant to convey ultimately is his very own, and never can be ramana's. Similarly when we say, 'Many of the 'I alone am' bhavana borders solipsism is limited to ones own experience alone and never others. I am just trying to bring light that what ever we say, is limited to our own light of knowledge and we can never really speak for any other, it is error to brand some other as some solipsism which is actually ourselves, so therefore, when we refer it as solipsism, we are only addressing to ourselves alone, one is talking about only oneself, one is referring to ones own self, one own Bhavana as solipsism! what ever we say, we are only saying about our own experiences alone and never the other. And when we use examples of Bhagavan Ramana or Ramakrishnar, about their advaitic expressions, it is only our very own, and not really theirs.

As Sri Ravi says, Soham bhavana cannot be  bought in to communication at all, simply noot possible, as who to communicate to whom? which is why i say repeatedly each comunnicate with oneself, and,  not to any other. i am here for just myself alone, for my own gratification alone, and not here to uplift anybody or share knowledge with anybody, i always talk/respond to myself alone.

But just one thing i want to say is that, one should not fear confusion and avoid discussions, one should face confusions, everybody has to face contradictions and cross the ocean of this sky and see the clarity. This is said by Sri V Ganesan and Brahmasri Nochur as well.

i discern, yet again, that one can only talk for oneself, and can never talk for 'the other' really. What ever we talk of others, world, many, etc. is only ourselves, and not really them!

God is there to care for the others who may find so called Advaita dangerous, not us.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

Here is the problem, dear Sri Nagaraj... How many mind are out there? Is there a mind exept your own? This where the confusion comes from. That's why I opened this thread, because the mind is very very peculiar matter. All so called mind of the different people are one mind! You call it yours but is it? You say that you are here for your own pleasure. There is nothing wrong with that but is that the only reason you are here? Is helping others part of that pleasure or you are here just to win debatic "combats"? Are you here to sow whatever you have learned or just to feed your ego by winning debates? I ask you these question not to attack you. I have asked them myself and everyone of you must do that. Are we here for dissolve or to feed our ego? "We are here for knowledge and wisdom" is not a good answer. Dear Nagaraj, in one of your previous replies you say that I am judgmental at times. I am not doing that to judge but to slap your ego. I do it to myself every day. So don't take it so personally.

To sum up my opinion about your comment about mind. There is only One Mind. If this Mind decides that there are many minds, then there are many minds. If It decides that this Mind is yours then It is yours. If you decide that you don't know the "other" minds but only your this again is the truth. The liberation is when This Mind says with absolute confidence "I am the Self, attributeless Sat-chit-ananda" and there is nothing other" and empty Itself from all thoughts.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 04:52:26 PM by ramana1359 »
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #48 on: May 18, 2012, 05:20:50 PM »
:) Interesting discussion to read. Interesting to see analysis of mind using mind and intellect :)

Thanks
Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #49 on: May 18, 2012, 05:27:25 PM »
:) Both these are true:
a. There is only one mind.
b. We write to ourselves.

And moreover ... I believe this Truth can also be written down :) ... otherwise no one would read Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna / Gospel of Ramana. When they read , they "Get a Glimpse of their own self" and thats why they read. Why else?
So written communication is also possible.

True, though written the communication does not reach all. But thats so with any book :)

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2012, 06:07:22 PM »
Quote
:) Both these are true:
a. There is only one mind.
b. We write to ourselves.

And moreover ... I believe this Truth can also be written down :) ... otherwise no one would read Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna / Gospel of Ramana. When they read , they "Get a Glimpse of their own self" and thats why they read. Why else?
So written communication is also possible.

True, though written the communication does not reach all. But thats so with any book :)

Yes, Sri Udai. I totally share you opinion. The Truth can be written down and this is necessary. People who say that Holy Books are needless are not right in my view. The point is however that to understand, to live this Truth you must taste It, to be It. Let suppose that you have never has tasted sugar. I can give you many explanation about what sweet taste is. But to understand me you must to taste the sugar and then may be you will agree with what I said. In the beginning you may not believe me about sweetness but when you feel it you will know for sure that I am right. Of course I express this truth in my own way, with my own words. You then can express it in another way but we both are describing what sweetness is, we are talking about the same thing. The Mind is That creates differences. Agree?
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srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2012, 06:13:22 PM »
:) There is absolutely no one who has not tasted Self

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2012, 06:19:56 PM »
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:) There is absolutely no one who has not tasted Self

I say yes because:
- taste means duality. It means that the Mind has experienced Bliss and everyone at least once in his/her life has experienced It.

I say no because:
- the Self cannot be tasted because It is nondual. It is the taster. And at the same time It is not.

I am sure you really feel what I mean. :)
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2012, 06:24:34 PM »
Dear ramana,

Holy Books of ancient Rishis and Sages are not written with mind as an instrument. These were written either by their experience,
or by inspiration with the help of the Self within. A rishi or a sage who had videha kaivalyam (death immediately after realization)
can not possibly write these things. Only the rishis and sages who have attained Jivan mukti state (that is liberation even while
embodied,)can alone write these scriptures.  Sri Bhagavan used to say that it is like a thief being stung by a scorpion, while in the
house where he was going to thieve. The thief can neither cry not refrain from crying. Still he cries and such cry only has come out
as scriptures, stotras and sastras.

Regarding that one should before hand read holy books is not happening in all cases of rishis and sages. Some of them by a single
experience of selfhood by them, have experienced the Self. Book knowledge was not warranted in their cases. All their reading
came about for the sake of others and all their writing came about  for the sake of others. Sri Bhagavan did not read anything
before hand. But the Truth and its various facets came to Him from out of His experience and this was taken as their holy books.
Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar realized the Self at the age of 3. What books he might have read at that age?  So in such cases,
the inspired writings came from within by the Self's instructions and they were only acting as pens to write them for the benefit of
others.

Of course such cases are rare. The rest of us, like us, should read  minimum books and then stop with that. There is no point in
accessing many websites and reading materials there unlimitedly. Such reading will make one a Pandit who knows various
things but he can never experience the Reality.       

I read nowadays only Sri Bhagavan's books, His devotees' experiences and articles from Mountain Path, which throw newer
insights into Sri Bhagavan's teachings. I read Saivite literature since Saivism is very close to Advaita. I never strain myself
reading various things that are available in various websites. These will only add to your load on the brain but never confer
experiential Reality.

To taste sugar's sweetness, only one sugarcane would do. No need to try various sweetish delicacies and fruits.
 
Arunachala Siva.   

srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2012, 06:24:59 PM »
Self is not experienced as an object, its the "Being" which is not an "object".
So whenever we say "Experience of Self" its inherent in and through all experiences.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2012, 06:29:28 PM »
All these back and forth posts on mind which describes half truths only prove that our minds can do any amount of maya-
mischiefs with us.

Arunachala Siva.

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2012, 06:30:55 PM »
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To taste sugar's sweetness, only one sugarcane would do. No need to try various sweetish delicacies and fruits.

Of course, Sri Subramanian. I just wanted to say that the Truth can be described by different ways but everyone must choose this description to which he or she is prone to.
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srkudai

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2012, 06:32:20 PM »
:) Long before one stops reading books, stop other worldliness.
whats the point in stoping reading spiritual books but continuing
all the other materialistic activities?
is reading spiritual books worse than materialistic activities ?

Hari

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #58 on: May 18, 2012, 06:38:29 PM »
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Self is not experienced as an object, its the "Being" which is not an "object".
So whenever we say "Experience of Self" its inherent in and through all experiences.

Dear Sri Udai. You have reminded me about a geat Hinduistic text that I read recently. It is very short. It is named Ganesha Stotram. Very short but very powerful text. I don't know its author. It is stated in it as follows:
Quote

We offer our worship to the Lord Ganesha, Who is Unborn, Absolute and Formless; Who is beyond joy, and Bliss Itself.....the One and the Infinite; Who is the Supreme without attributes, differentiation and desire; and Who is verily the Supreme Brahman.

Lord (the Self) is even beyond such descriptions and "experiences" as Joy, Bliss, etc. So what you say Sri Udai is very important and very rarely mentioned!
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2012, 06:40:21 PM »
The wordly actiivities will have also to stop along with excessive book reading. But after realization, one can do any worldly activity
since he is firmly embedded in the Self. Janaka ruled a kingdom. Kaduveli Siddhar and Tondaridipodi Azhwar led a married life.
Sri Sankara attended to the work of establishing four Maths.  He debated with  84 other faiths and proved their inadequacy.
Tiru Jnana Sambandha debated with Jains to prove their faith to be futile.  Manikkavachagar even spent the king's money
to build a Siva temple. Uddhava went as a messenger to gopikas to tell them the Truth, that Krishna was not a kala rupam,
a man of 6 feet but the Atma within.     

Arunachala Siva.