Author Topic: Fundamental question about Mind!  (Read 164536 times)

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2012, 06:44:04 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
       :) One thorn is used to remove another.
Shastra sravanam / study is a sadhana in sadhana panchakam. one stops sadhana when its use is done.
when the other torn of worldliness in our mind is removed, one stops shastra study also. or one may continue shastra study as you mentioned that a realized person may involve in any work thats dharmic.

so shastra sravanam etc need not be stopped. one need not be in a great hurry to stop that!
Let the worldliness stop totally first.

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2012, 06:45:54 PM »
Dear Ramana,
      I never said Udai or Sri udai is important.
Self is beyond all descriptions and yet if someone says "Summa Iru" to a well prepared mind, the mind just gets dissolved. "Summa iru" is a description ... its not Self and yet when mind is prepared, it serves to take the person one step beyond.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2012, 06:52:14 PM »
Quote
Dear Ramana,
      I never said Udai or Sri udai is important.
Self is beyond all descriptions and yet if someone says "Summa Iru" to a well prepared mind, the mind just gets dissolved. "Summa iru" is a description ... its not Self and yet when mind is prepared, it serves to take the person one step beyond.

Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2012, 07:31:14 PM »
Dear srkudai,

sravanam cannot go ad infinitum. Because there are further steps like mananam and nididhyasanam, till up to Samadhi.

Arunachala Siva.

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2012, 07:43:48 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
          :) Thats very true.
But when ? This is well explained in BG shankara bhasyam. Here I am posting a section of it.
What you are talking about is Nivruthi margam. If you read BG, Sri Krishna says "Lokesmin dvivida nista", there are two life styles : karma or pravrutti and jnana which is nivrutti.
when through karma yoga the mind is totally purified, thats when one may chose nivrutti.
We do not have two options: karma/jnana life styles. there is only one lifestyle available for us, jnana is only for people who have reached a stage where no more karma is needed for purification.
to put it clearly: its like two options go for Msc or go for Phd. The person who has already done Msc does Phd. And the person who has not done Msc has to do Msc. One whose mind is purified already goes for nivritti marga. Thats for a person who has no need for Karma to purify.
Rest all have to do sravanam-mananam-nidhidhyasam together until they reach a stage where no more karma is needed for purification.


Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2012, 07:50:52 PM »
In this Forum which speaks about  Sri Ramana Bhagavan and also His devotees, nivritti marga methods alone should be taken into
account. No doubt Sri Bhagavan approved Bhakti by saying Bhakti is Jnana Matha, He did not mention in detail about karma. He
only said along with Jnana vicharam, one can do karma without Jana vicharam being affected. (Talks).  If one feels sravana should
be constantly done along with manana etc., then he cannot successfully progress in jnana vicharam.
 
Arunachala Siva.     

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2012, 07:55:33 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
        :) Karma yoga or pravritti marga includes Devotion, Sharanagati as practise, listening to Ramana or reading Ramana literature, Meditations and mind purifications !

Nivrutti marga person does not need this forum. this forum is also a karma he or she is involving in.
Nivritti is applicable only for a person whose mind is totally freed of raga-dveshas. the person takes sanyas and remains established in Self, with minimal work, not involving in any kind of activities.

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »
As such , most often, even people who have taken up nivritti marga still read scriptures as nidhidhyasam. Reading scriptures itself is nidhidhyasam.

:) Why are we against study of scriptures which is one of the sadhanas in sadhana panchakam , while we readily accept prayer or nama japa as accepted means which too are sadhanas ??
Nityam study of scriptures is as much a sadhana as nama japa. mind stills down and one remains established while studying! and as its based on knowledge its not artificial stilling of mind.

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #68 on: May 18, 2012, 08:19:26 PM »
To exactly specify what nivritti marga is ... plz read Annamalai Swami's life.
There came a stage where Ramana told Annamalai swami to leave the ashram and live in seclusion and not meet him also. That was nivritti.
until then, all his stay with Ramana was involving activities of some or the other kind and thats all pravritti.
i am not sure if annamalai swami continued to listen to some books or not.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #69 on: May 18, 2012, 08:36:40 PM »
Dear srkudai,

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 249:

Some say that one should never cease to engage in hearing, reflection and one pointedness. These are not fulfilled by
by reading books, but only by continued practice to keep the mind withdrawn.
Sravana removes the illusion of the Self being one with the body etc., Reflection makes it clear that Knowledge is the Self.
One pointedness reveals the Self as being Infinite and Blissful.

Sri Bhagavan says in Talks No. 562:

A practiser may, by long practice, gain a glimpse of the Reality. This experience may be vivid for some time being. And yet he
will be distracted by the old vasanas and so his experience will not avail him. Such a man must continue his manana and nididysasana
so that all the obstacles may be destroyed. He will then be able to remain permanently in the Real State/

Talks No. 647:

Sravana - Knowledge dawns. That is the flame.
Manana - the Knowledge is not allowed to vanish. Just as the flame is protected by a windscreen, so the other thoughts are not
allowed to overwhelm the right Knowledge.
Nididyasana - The flame is kept up to burn brightly by trimming the wick. Whenever other thoughts arise, the mind is turned
inward, to the light of true Knowledge.
Samadhi - when this becomes natural it is Samadhi.

The Atma Vicharam, Who am I? is the sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of 'I' is the manana. The practical application on
each occason is nididyasana. Being as 'I', abiding is Samadhi.

Talks No. 57:

Sravana is only paroksha jnana. By manana it becomes aparoksha spasmodically. The obstruction to its continuity is the vasanas.
They rise up with reinforced vigor after manana. They must be held in check with vigilance. Such vigilance is remembering I am not the
body, and adhering to the aparoksha anubhava which has been had in course of manana. Such practice is called nididhyasana. When
vasanas are eradicated the Sahaja state dawns.  That is Jnana, for sure.

Dukkha nivritti comes only when vasanas are eradicated by nididyasana.


Arunachala Siva.         

srkudai

  • Guest
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2012, 08:53:34 PM »
Dear Subramanian,
      :) What Bhagavan Ramana says here is not objected.
I agree that:
a) One should withdraw from everything and revel in Self alone.
b) vasanas as obstructions to aparoksha jnana is also not objected.

The contention is about "When one should leave sravanam". Sravana-Manana-Nidhidhyasam happen hand in hand for all of us. We do it in cycles. When i sit down with Ashtavakra Gita or perhaps hear to some saint speaking abt it ... its Sravana + Manana + Nidhidhyasana. After that i may sit in mediation.

if after reading Ramana's book ... u sit down for meditation and "Feel" deeper meditation that means u need reading.

BTW when u say scripture reading is not required u include reading Ramana's works is also not required right? which means presence in this forum is again not required!! :)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2012, 09:03:21 PM »
Dear all,

this discussion about mind is like this - While the God Almighty is standing before us, like thousand suns, and, we are still only looking at a picture of his in paper and trying to understand the picture.

Instead of knowing the mind, what is required is to trace back to the source, where from 'i' emerged, this alone is wisdom.

There is no mind, your mind, my mind, or other mind, what is for sure, is the fact of 'i' am, who is raising so any questions and views, who am i? excepting this, i do not see anything else of any importance.

in a piece of paper, we are so engrossed in the words itself, that we forget the paper itself. One needs to put attention on only that befits attention.

Thus i conclude myself in this topic.

Prostrations to Bhagavan
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2012, 10:22:42 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam:

"Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about; but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I wen
t.

With them the Seed of Wisdom did I sow,
And with my own hand labour'd it to grow:
And this was all the Harvest that I reap'd--
"I came like Water and like Wind I go."

Into this Universe, and Why not knowing,
Nor Whence, like Water willy-nilly flowing:
And out of it, as Wind along the Waste,
I know not Whither, willy-nilly blowing.

What, without asking, hither hurried whence?
And, without asking whither hurried hence!
Another and another Cup to drown
The Memory of this Impertinence!

Up from Earth's Centre through the Seventh Gate
I rose, and on the Throne of Saturn sate,
And many Knots unravel'd by the Road;
But not the Knot of Human Death and Fate.

There was the Door to which I found no Key:
There was the Veil through which I could not see:
Some little Talk awhile of Me and Thee
There seemed--and then no more of Thee and Me.


Namaskar.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2012, 04:54:54 AM »
Dear all,

concerning about different kind of Yoga I think that it is very difficult to make distinction between them. Yes, every time it is said that these kind of Yogas are appeared because the different type of minds. But if you look closer their borders merge. Can there be Karma Yoga without Bhakti Yoga? The karma yogin gives all his actions to the Lord or the Self. Bhakti yogins do the same. Jnanis always surrender all their thoughts, emotions and life to the Self or Brahman. Isn't doing Self-inquiry actually different kind of surrender? Different Yogas are actually descriptions of the different ascpects of the One Yoga and every yogin practices all the "yogas" no matter if he realizes that or not.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1811
    • View Profile
Re: Fundamental question about Mind!
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2012, 05:03:09 AM »
Quote
Dear all,

this discussion about mind is like this - While the God Almighty is standing before us, like thousand suns, and, we are still only looking at a picture of his in paper and trying to understand the picture.

Instead of knowing the mind, what is required is to trace back to the source, where from 'i' emerged, this alone is wisdom.

There is no mind, your mind, my mind, or other mind, what is for sure, is the fact of 'i' am, who is raising so any questions and views, who am i? excepting this, i do not see anything else of any importance.

in a piece of paper, we are so engrossed in the words itself, that we forget the paper itself. One needs to put attention on only that befits attention.

Thus i conclude myself in this topic.

Prostrations to Bhagavan

Sri Nagaraj, this discussion is like all other discussions which we do here. All we do here is discussing the Mind, no matter what is the name of the topic. We all accept the Truth you present (e.g. we must find the source of the "I" and so on) but even this is by the Mind. So trying to unveil some of the characteristics of the Mind is not useless at all. Actually Self-inquiry is method of the Mind searching Itself and finding It is nowhere.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html