Author Topic: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi  (Read 19799 times)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2013, 11:01:48 AM »
My stand is clear Nagaraj: Shankara is the authority ... I do not accept anything that deviates from shankara philosophy. Shandilya is not my authority ... if what he says is as per shankaracharya's views, i take it. As such I see what Shankara is saying ... clearly !!

and shankara criticizes certain aspects of pathanjali view ... are we aware of this ?

so i made my stand clear !
do you agree with vidhyanarayana swami in the above quote or not !! thats it! A simple straight question.

Your portrayal and interpretation of Adi Shankaracharya and his works are flawed and not correct and gravely mis-communicate What Adi Shankara Stood for, who united thousands of faiths.

You please substantiate, instead of passing statements such as this -

and shankara criticizes certain aspects of pathanjali view ... are we aware of this ?

I can provide counter points for every points you raise. The whole point is your spirit if wrong! Your citations of Shankara and other shankaracharyas in isolation and not as a whole picture. You are mis communicating Adi Shankara, I keep saying this since when you began communicating on this subjects.

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2013, 11:02:30 AM »
Regarding Sankhyas ... Sankhyas system is not the same as Sankhya yoga of Bhagavad Gita. Please do not confuse between the two.

Here is Chendrashekara Saraswathi ji's comment on Shankara's teachings:

Quote
Many believe that Buddhism ceased to have a large following in India because it came under the attack of Sankara. This is not true. There are very few passages in the Acarya's commentaries critical of that religion, a
religion that was opposed to the Vedas. Far more forcefully has he criticised the doctrines of Sankhya and Mimamsa that respect the Vedic tradition. He demolishes their view that Isvara is not the creator of the
world and that it is not he who dispenses the fruits of our actions. He also maintains that Isvara possesses the laksanas or characteristics attributed to him by the Vedas and the Brahmasutra and argues that there can be
no world without Isvara and that it is wrong to maintain that our works yield fruits on their own. It is Isvara, his resolve, that has created this world, and it is he who awards us the fruits of our actions. We cannot find
support in his commentaries for the view that he was responsible for the decline of Buddhism in India.

And more importantly one should have viveka to clearly see wahts ok with those systems and whats not.

Quote
The Acarya goes along with systems like Buddhism, Mimamsa, Sankhya, and Nyaya up to a point. He accepts them on a certain level, but on another level he disapproves of them.

So I do not agree with Buddhism also ... beyond a point...!! That point till which I am in agreement with buddhism is also exactly shankara's position.

Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2013, 11:05:36 AM »
Regarding Sankhyas ... Sankhyas system is not the same as Sankhya yoga of Bhagavad Gita. Please do not confuse between the two.

Who was confused? You have to please read Kapilopadesam from Bhagavatam.

I do not understand why you are bringing Buddhism here?

Moreover, It is widely well known that Shankara's ideas reflect the Madhyamika school of Buddhism, many thoughts and ideas almost similar to Nagarjuna.

Goudapada karika - pls refer to that.

--
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 11:07:19 AM by Nagaraj »
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2013, 11:08:04 AM »
Quote
Your portrayal and interpretation of Adi Shankaracharya and his works are flawed and not correct and gravely mis-communicate What Adi Shankara Stood for, who united thousands of faiths.

You have not studied Shankara Bhasyas. How do you know what I present is correct or incorrect ? Did you even see Shankara Bhasyam of Bhagavad Gita ? Please read it in original and come back to me.  I will talk to you then.


Quote
You please substantiate, instead of passing statements such as this -


Quote from: Tushnim.Asanam on Today at 10:57:13 AM
and shankara criticizes certain aspects of pathanjali view ... are we aware of this ?

You can find refereces in Brahma Sutra Bhasyam. But long before you do that, you need basic knowledge of some shankara bhasyams. If you read them, i am sure you will find sufficient material to reevaluate your stand. For that matter What I quoted above of Panchadasi is itself sufficient if you read what it says. I would be very happy if you disagree with it and leave it at that than misinterpret what it says

Quote
I can provide counter points for every points you raise. The whole point is your spirit if wrong! Your citations of Shankara and other shankaracharyas in isolation and not as a whole picture. You are mis communicating Adi Shankara, I keep saying this since when you began communicating on this subjects.

--

You should say this after reading atleast BG shankara Bhasyam. I am sure you did not read ... i am not miscommunicating ... i am presenting what he said ... you are confusing it coz you are trying to prove that all people said the same thing ... some views of vivekananda , some of ramakrishna , some of aurbindo etc ... just an amalgamation of various theories without viveka or proper clarity. if you set all of them aside and just read shankara you will see what he is saying ... but while reading dont predecide that i should find pathanjali and ramanuja also to be equally true ... coz he rejects their views ruthlessly.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2013, 11:09:37 AM »
Quote
Your portrayal and interpretation of Adi Shankaracharya and his works are flawed and not correct and gravely mis-communicate What Adi Shankara Stood for, who united thousands of faiths.

You have not studied Shankara Bhasyas. How do you know what I present is correct or incorrect ? Did you even see Shankara Bhasyam of Bhagavad Gita ? Please read it in original and come back to me.  I will talk to you then.

What is the proof you have studied Shankara Bhashya?

:)

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 11:10:27 AM »
Regarding Sankhyas ... Sankhyas system is not the same as Sankhya yoga of Bhagavad Gita. Please do not confuse between the two.

Who was confused? You have to please read Kapilopadesam from Bhagavatam.

I do not understand why you are bringing Buddhism here?

Moreover, It is widely well known that Shankara's ideas reflect the Madhyamika school of Buddhism, many thoughts and ideas almost similar to Nagarjuna.

Goudapada karika - pls refer to that.

--

I just gave a complete paragraph which showed that chandrashekara saraswati ji also said that shankara rejected sankhyas ! it was my response to your earlier statement:

Quote
You have conveyed else where, Shankara countered Sankhya Yoga, what about his Bhashya on Bhagavad Gita which has a whole chapter on Sankhya!

I just said that the 2nd chapter of Gita is not about Sankhya philosophy ... when i said shankara countered sankhya ... you should know that what he contered is different from 2nd chapter... and the quote of chandrashekara saraswathi ji clearly explains it.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2013, 11:12:51 AM »
Regarding Sankhyas ... Sankhyas system is not the same as Sankhya yoga of Bhagavad Gita. Please do not confuse between the two.

Who was confused? You have to please read Kapilopadesam from Bhagavatam.

I do not understand why you are bringing Buddhism here?

Moreover, It is widely well known that Shankara's ideas reflect the Madhyamika school of Buddhism, many thoughts and ideas almost similar to Nagarjuna.

Goudapada karika - pls refer to that.

--

I just gave a complete paragraph which showed that chandrashekara saraswati ji also said that shankara rejected sankhyas ! it was my response to your earlier statement:

Quote
You have conveyed else where, Shankara countered Sankhya Yoga, what about his Bhashya on Bhagavad Gita which has a whole chapter on Sankhya!

I just said that the 2nd chapter of Gita is not about Sankhya philosophy ... when i said shankara countered sankhya ... you should know that what he contered is different from 2nd chapter... and the quote of chandrashekara saraswathi ji clearly explains it.

Isolated citations.... no substantiations!

i can also counter your points with Shankara points picking them from isolation, in some of his works!

even if you provide 1000 points, i will call a spade a spade, i will say that which is not right as incorrect. because, your spirit is incorrect.

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2013, 11:14:45 AM »
Quote
Your portrayal and interpretation of Adi Shankaracharya and his works are flawed and not correct and gravely mis-communicate What Adi Shankara Stood for, who united thousands of faiths.

You have not studied Shankara Bhasyas. How do you know what I present is correct or incorrect ? Did you even see Shankara Bhasyam of Bhagavad Gita ? Please read it in original and come back to me.  I will talk to you then.

What is the proof you have studied Shankara Bhashya?

:)

--

Dear Nagaraj,
         :) Please do not stoop down to such low levels ... our objective is not to win this argument. I have studied or not , only i will know ... and my statements will clearly indicate ... but only another person who has studied can even comment on it. That you did not study is clear from the stand you are taking .

The statement of vidhyanarayana swami is clearly there in this thread itself.
You have not yet answered whether you agree with it or not. The statement is there ... before you.
i am atleast clear enough to say i do not agree with anything that deviates from shankara philosophy.
be clear and straight nagaraj ...
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2013, 11:16:07 AM »
Regarding Sankhyas ... Sankhyas system is not the same as Sankhya yoga of Bhagavad Gita. Please do not confuse between the two.

Who was confused? You have to please read Kapilopadesam from Bhagavatam.

I do not understand why you are bringing Buddhism here?

Moreover, It is widely well known that Shankara's ideas reflect the Madhyamika school of Buddhism, many thoughts and ideas almost similar to Nagarjuna.

Goudapada karika - pls refer to that.

--

I just gave a complete paragraph which showed that chandrashekara saraswati ji also said that shankara rejected sankhyas ! it was my response to your earlier statement:

Quote
You have conveyed else where, Shankara countered Sankhya Yoga, what about his Bhashya on Bhagavad Gita which has a whole chapter on Sankhya!

I just said that the 2nd chapter of Gita is not about Sankhya philosophy ... when i said shankara countered sankhya ... you should know that what he contered is different from 2nd chapter... and the quote of chandrashekara saraswathi ji clearly explains it.

Isolated citations.... no substantiations!

i can also counter your points with Shankara points picking them from isolation, in some of his works!

even if you provide 1000 points, i will call a spade a spade, i will say that which is not right as incorrect. because, your spirit is incorrect.

--

What more do you want ? I cited chandrashekara saraswathi ji's statement that shankara countered sankhyas. what else you need for proof ? the exact location where he countered ? Read Brahma Sutra bhasyam yourself. dont ask me to reproduce the whole book here coz you disagree !! :D
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2013, 11:16:46 AM »
Who is stooping such low level -

Please see yours -


Quote
Your portrayal and interpretation of Adi Shankaracharya and his works are flawed and not correct and gravely mis-communicate What Adi Shankara Stood for, who united thousands of faiths.

You have not studied Shankara Bhasyas. How do you know what I present is correct or incorrect ? Did you even see Shankara Bhasyam of Bhagavad Gita ? Please read it in original and come back to me.  I will talk to you then.

मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 11:18:16 AM »
Thats not stooping to a low level ... i did not ask for a proof from you that you have studied or not.
 i clearly said u did not study.
its obvious from your stand and position.
:)

i know u did not study.

to ask "whats the proof" is stooping coz you clearly know , even as you ask ... that there is no proof other than the knowledge thats presented.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 11:20:33 AM »
i give the same response to you -

Dear Nagaraj,
         :) Please do not stoop down to such low levels ... our objective is not to win this argument. I have studied or not , only i will know ... and my statements will clearly indicate ... but only another person who has studied can even comment on it. That you did not study is clear from the stand you are taking.

in your own stlye -

LOL  ;D

How can you know if i have studied or not? YOu believe your knowledge is alone right and only you have studied Shankara Bhashya?

I say, you are wrong! i would say 100 times you are wrong! You have not studied Shankara Bhashya :D

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2013, 11:24:22 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,
     :) Its your choice how many times you will say i am wrong. :) ... but plz do not waste your energies in just repeating ... if you repeat rama nama ,... you may get some punya ... what will you gain by repeating "udai did not study shankara" ? its absolutely stupid thing to do! anyways if you do not want ot heed to this advise also and continue to repeat it ... plz do so.

You have the lines of Vidhyanarayana swami in this thread itself.
you have your conscience to answer ... whether you accept them or not.
its your choice Nagaraj.

I am sure you cannot accept what vedanta panchadasi says ... but are not bold enough to take a stand and say i do not agree with it !! :)
if you have studied shankara you would not have had to struggle with this statement of vedanta panchadasi.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4132
    • View Profile
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2013, 11:28:05 AM »
Dear Udai,

I will reject your thoughts, because you have not grasped the whole essence of Shankara as yet! For if you truly did, you would not be wasting all your energies thus.

I have read most of Shankara's works inicluding Panchadasi, but i ought right reject your way of conveying. If you truly grasped the true essence of Shankara you would not be so polarizing!

A wrong is wrong, even if Shiva opens his third eye!

Your essence if wrong!

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2013, 11:32:53 AM »
Dear Udai,

I will reject your thoughts, because you have not grasped the whole essence of Shankara as yet! For if you truly did, you would not be wasting all your energies thus.

I have read most of Shankara's works inicluding Panchadasi, but i ought right reject your way of conveying. If you truly grasped the true essence of Shankara you would not be so polarizing!

A wrong is wrong, even if Shiva opens his third eye!

Your essence if wrong!

--

Thanks for that feedback ... but then you have still not explained what the quotes of this thread mean :D ...
and if you agree or disagree with them.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/