Author Topic: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi  (Read 19792 times)

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2013, 11:44:59 AM »
Dear Udai,

I will reject your thoughts, because you have not grasped the whole essence of Shankara as yet! For if you truly did, you would not be wasting all your energies thus.

I have read most of Shankara's works inicluding Panchadasi, but i ought right reject your way of conveying. If you truly grasped the true essence of Shankara you would not be so polarizing!

A wrong is wrong, even if Shiva opens his third eye!

Your essence if wrong!

--

I thought Panchadasi was by Swami Vidyaranya. No?

On a light note - Nice dialogue from 40 year old Thiruvilayadal Tamil Movie :) - "Netrikann thurappilum kutram kutrame" ( Even if third eye is opened a crime is a crime) as told to Shiva :)

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Nagaraj

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2013, 11:46:32 AM »
Udai

Fron whom have you studied shankara bhashya. Which Guru or is it through cds and tapes? Has your guru given you go ahead to go about talking about shankara and his bhashyas? Do you know sanskrit?

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2013, 11:48:10 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,
       :) You plz answer the basic question... what do the statements of Vidhyanarayana swami mean ... as quoted in this thread ?

Why are you avoiding it ?

Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2013, 12:04:53 PM »
Dear udai

I do not deem it obligatory to respond to your question as you are mis interpreting and mis quoting various statements especially of Shankara parampara. What point would it serve? I dont want to add to your mis quotations.

Your essence is wrong. Period.

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Ravi.N

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2013, 12:28:16 PM »
Friends,
The whole problem with the thread is that it immediately jumped and latched onto the word 'nirodhena' and extrapolated this to mean the Negation of Patanjalai's Yoga sutras!!!
Here is Swami Vivekananda's commentary on verse 51 of chapter 1 of Patanjali's Yoga Sutra.The way Swamiji dived into the essence of these sutras -by a direct samyama is a story in itself.

Quote
तस्यापि निरोधे सर्वनिरोधान्निर्बीजः समाधिः ॥५१॥
 
51. By the restraint of even this (impression, which obstructs all other impressions), all being restrained, comes the "seedless" Samadhi.
 
You remember that our goal is to perceive the Soul itself. We cannot perceive the Soul, because it has got mingled up with nature, with the mind, with the body. The ignorant man thinks his body is the Soul. The learned man thinks his mind is the Soul. But both of them are mistaken. What makes the Soul get mingled up with all this? Different waves in the Chitta rise and cover the Soul; we only see a little reflection of the Soul through these waves; so, if the wave is one of anger, we see the Soul as angry; "I am angry," one says. If it is one of love, we see ourselves reflected in that wave, and say we are loving. If that wave is one of weakness, and the Soul is reflected in it, we think we are weak. These various ideas come from these impressions, these Samskaras covering the Soul. The real nature of the Soul is not perceived as long as there is one single wave in the lake of the Chitta; this real nature will never be perceived until all the waves have subsided. So, first, Patanjali teaches us the meaning of these waves; secondly, the best way to repress them; and thirdly, how to make one wave so strong as to suppress all other waves, fire eating fire as it were. When only one remains, it will be easy to suppress that also, and when that is gone, this Samadhi or concentration is called seedless. It leaves nothing, and the Soul is manifested just as It is, in Its own glory. Then alone we know that the Soul is not a compound; It is the only eternal simple in the universe, and as such, It cannot be born, It cannot die; It is immortal, indestructible, the ever-living essence of intelligence.

What panchadasi is referring to is just 'suppression' of mental vrittis by an act of will;whereas what Patanjali aims is to reach the source of the mind through the elimination of Vrittis  in a step by step scientific manner.Only those who have practised it will know how it works.

Namaskar.


Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 12:57:09 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
      :) LOL! Are you sure thats the interpretation ?
Please read the verse again... it says "Though temporary lulling of mind is possible, without Brahma Jnanam its not possible to end mind ... and so vedanta proclaims loudly."

Ravi ji ... i would happily accept if you say that you do not agree with panchadasi ...
please do not bring in your own interpretations.
The discussion in context ... in chapter 4 of panchadasi is ... that elimination of duality through elimination of thoughts is not sufficient and hence yoga is not sufficient.
i can quote many verses in panchadasi itself which support this view.

Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 12:58:14 PM »
Dear udai

I do not deem it obligatory to respond to your question as you are mis interpreting and mis quoting various statements especially of Shankara parampara. What point would it serve? I dont want to add to your mis quotations.

Your essence is wrong. Period.

--

:D I knew u would not give interpretation ...coz you cannot.
as i said your own conscience if you are able to answer thats good enough.
you need not answer me !
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Nagaraj

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 01:03:45 PM »
Haha hehe  ;D

Continue udai...

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 01:06:32 PM »
Order or suggestion ? :D
lol both are unasked.

I'll do what i have to do.
if you cannot interpret those statements better not involve in this discussion ... coz this discussion is about those two verses of panchadasi.
please dont disturb the thread if u have nothing to interpret about those statements.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2013, 01:07:32 PM »
"Ego feeds on being right and making others wrong. The need to be right is the grand master of ego consciousness"

- Unknown Author
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2013, 01:10:50 PM »
udai,

Quote
"Though temporary lulling of mind is possible, without Brahma Jnanam its not possible to end mind"

I am pretty sure of what I have posted.Anyway,for your reference,I am posting Swami Krishnananda's commentary on these verses:

Quote
If the mind is the cause of the sufferings of people, a question is raised here: “We can suppress the mind by a kind of yoga where the will is applied in an act of powerful concentration, and we can see that the mind does not function. What is the purpose of knowing God, Brahma jnana, and such relevant matters about which we discussed?”

This is a question that arises from an ignorant mind. Suppression of the vrittis does not mean yoga. The word ‘yoga’ should not be applied to such a process at all. Suppression is a negative activity. Yoga is a positive union, and it is not enough if the mind does not function. It has also to function in relation to God’s existence.

The difference between mental restraint and God-consciousness is this: while the vrittis or the functions of the mind are inhibited, the mental qualities that describe the objects outside may appear to be not there. Not seeing something is not knowledge. There is also a necessity to see what is really there. When the mind is withdrawn, it will not see what it was earlier seeing as imposed upon the objects of the world, the creation of God. But it cannot see the creation of God. Brahma jnana is the vision of God’s creation, God Himself. Therefore, a negative activity in the form of the suppression of the vrittis in any manner whatsoever, voluntarily, will not suffice"

This again is also Patanjali's perspective as well.He is aiming to go to the source of Mind-Pure consciousness.Dwelling in Pure consciousness automatically reigns in the vrittis of the mind.No suppression needs to be resorted to.

The complete commentary of Swami Krishnananda is here:
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/panchadasi/pan_20.html

Anyway,I am not banking on any second hand knowledge to understand how it works.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2013, 01:11:21 PM »
Udai

Atleast u now know what disturbance to a thread is.

Sanjaya you have indirectly proved somebodle else wrong by first pisting thst qte now.

.
.
Thats where we all are... Nobe of us are in some pedastal...
We all need to know where we are.

--
मनश्चेन्न लग्नं गुरोरंघ्रिपद्मे ततः किं ततः किं ततः किं ततः किम् ।।

Manaschenna lagnam Gurorangri padme, Thatha kim Thathah Kim, Thathah kim Thathah kim

If the mind does not remain at the Lotus feet of Guru, What is the use? What is the use? What is the use!!

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2013, 01:17:58 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
        :) :D ...
Ravi ji ... did you read the verse. The verse says without Brahma Jnanam the mind will arise again!
Its clear in what it says.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2013, 01:19:14 PM »
Infact I can give very detail quotes stating why Samadhi is not sufficient !
SAMADHI is not enough.
this I can give quotes from Panchadasi.
but i would rather leave it to you to verify.

dont read that partial translation of panchadasi ... read the verses and see what it says.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Ravi.N

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Re: Yoga (Patanjali) is Not Sufficient - Panchadasi
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2013, 01:23:57 PM »
Udai,
Samadhi means to be sama with adhi-source of consciousness.There is nothing more to be attained.
What do you mean by 'sufficient'?
Namaskar.