Author Topic: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's  (Read 3049 times)

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« on: March 20, 2013, 02:48:25 PM »
Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's  ?

1. Did Ramana disagree with any of shankara's views.
2. Did Ramana say something that Shankara did not say ?

Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

sanjaya_ganesh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 572
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2013, 02:53:46 PM »
In my mind, there is no new teaching than what is told in Upanishads. The biggest abuse / disrepsectful act one can do to a guru is to say that the guru taught a new method / teaching - which is what most people unknowingly do attributing new method  / teaching to a new age guru.

A real guru will be deeply hurt by such a statement (that he / she advised a new method) whereas all that a true guru tries is to bring you closer to the Supreme Truth already expounded in all its majesty in Upanishads.

Regarding Bhagawan, I hate when people tell me Ramana Bhagawan taught a "new method" called self enquiry. Bhagawan would be deeply hurt by such statements I am sure.

Sanjay
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 03:04:17 PM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2013, 02:58:22 PM »
In my mind, there is no new teaching than what is told in Upanishads. The biggest abuse / disrepsectful act one can do to a guru is to say that the guru taught a new method / teaching - which is what most people unknowingly do attributing new method  / teaching to a new age guru.

Sanjay

I totally concur with you on this!! This attempt to say a new teaching is presented is really an attempt to create a cult.
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2013, 03:44:01 PM »

Sri Bhagavan to prove the world that He is not different from Sri Sankara in His teachings, has rendered Atma Bodham,
Sri Dakshinamurti Stotram, Sri Guru Stuti and Hastamalakam in Tamizh verses.  And again Vivekachudmani in lucid Tamizh
prose.

He has said in one of the introductory verses has said: That same Sankara is now in my Heart and made me to render this
in Tamizh.

Arunachala Siva.

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2013, 03:54:11 PM »
Dear Subramanian ji,
      :) Thank  you. If that is so ... Shankara says in sadhana panchakam that its important to do maha vakya vichara and also nithyam(always) one should study the vedas and contemplate upon their meaning. Also shankara said that one should have the "I am Self" conviction.
Does this not mean these are also fundamentals of Ramana Philosophy ?

When Shankara said "Nithyam " study vedas ... should we not consider it as an important instruction ?
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2013, 03:56:43 PM »
Further shankara says that karma and upasana themselves cannot lead to mukti... without the aid of self knowledge and he adds that self knowledge removes ignorance and vanishes itself ... which means this self knowledge is not self abidance but scriptural knowledge.
so this also should he not violating ramana's teachings anywhere ?
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

ksksat27

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2013, 04:17:40 PM »
Dear Subramanian ji,
      :) Thank  you. If that is so ... Shankara says in sadhana panchakam that its important to do maha vakya vichara and also nithyam(always) one should study the vedas and contemplate upon their meaning. Also shankara said that one should have the "I am Self" conviction.
Does this not mean these are also fundamentals of Ramana Philosophy ?

When Shankara said "Nithyam " study vedas ... should we not consider it as an important instruction ?


Dear udai

I think you are trying to exactly equate and clone Sri Ramana in full par with Sri Shankara.

Further you have this sort of dead-lock in the matter of traditional scritpural study.

Truth is,  many many saints have come to this Bharatha Bhumi.  There are many ways prescirbed like simple japa , bhajan, hari bol etc.

Without even studying even a letter A of scritpures,  many saints have attained self realization.

I agree sadhana and purificatio of mind is required -- but it can be accomplished in many ways.

I would equate this Sri Chinmaya vision attitude to very similar attitude of Sri Vaishnavas of Tamil Nadu  -- the followers of Sri Ramanuja.




Please dont try to cling and lock yourself in this --   there are many ways to attain Truth.

Sri Ramana's school of thought is totally indepent --  he is not a clone of Sri Shankara.

Time to time mankind gets many saints.  Each act according to the need of specific time.

By being very much locked and attached to scritpural study ,  vadha, pradhivadha -- please dont miss the point of getting simple faith , devotion to the God or Guru.


Tushnim.Asanam

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2198
    • View Profile
    • Self Abidance
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2013, 04:30:16 PM »
Dear ksksat27,

Quote
Sri Ramana's school of thought is totally indepent --  he is not a clone of Sri Shankara.


:) But Subramanian ji says :

Quote
Sri Bhagavan to prove the world that He is not different from Sri Sankara in His teachings, has rendered Atma Bodham,
Sri Dakshinamurti Stotram, Sri Guru Stuti and Hastamalakam in Tamizh verses.  And again Vivekachudmani in lucid Tamizh
prose.

He has said in one of the introductory verses has said: That same Sankara is now in my Heart and made me to render this
in Tamizh.

Arunachala Siva.

What do you have to say about this ?
Harih OM!
http://www.selfabidance.blogspot.in/

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2013, 04:53:52 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

This cloning theory is really funny and is painful too. Sri Sankara was strictly followed by his four disciples and are they clones
to Sankara? The four Sanakadhi rishis followed the teachings of Sri Dakshinamurti in toto and are they clones?  Tirukachi nambi
and Sri Ramanuja followed the same teachings and philosophy of qualified non dualism.  Are they clones.  They are all faithful
disciples to the first one and that is all.

Down the time line, S.S. Cohen, Chadwick, Laskhamana Sarma, Arthur Osborne, Kunju Swami, Viswanatha Swami. Suri Nagamma,
Kanakammal, V. Ganesan, have strictly followed the teachings of Sri Bhagavan. Are they all clones?  Tinnai Swami received one
word Iru and stayed put in t'malai for three decades only contemplating on the Self. Is he a clone?

Arunachala Siva.   

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 675
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2013, 06:02:59 PM »
Shankara's Teachings are based on 3 Traditional steps of :
1) Shravanam ( of Shrutis )  2) Mananam 3) Niddhidhayasanam

Bhagwan Ramana's Teachings are Oriented towards "Niddhidhayasanam"  predominantly .

Bhagwan Ramana's Teachings are ideal for mature devotees who have done with all the basics either in the past life or this life .

Shankara focused on 3 aspects in his Vedantic Teachings : Jiva ( I) , Jagat ( World ) , Ishwara ( God ) 
Bhagwan Ramana focused on only 1 aspect : Jiva ( I)  , he did not encourage discussion on World , Ishwara etc

Bhagwan Ramana Translated the following Texts of Shankara in Tamil :
Dakshinamurti Stotram , Atma Bodham,Sri Guru Stuti and Hastamalakam in Tamizh verses.  And again Vivekachudmani in lucid Tamizh prose.

Bhagwan Ramana recommended the following texts to study : Dakshinamurthi Stotram , Ribhu Gita , Kaivalya Navaneetham , Ashtavakra Gita  , Yoga Vashishta etc .Note that these texts are studied by a serious student of Vedanta who is at the Niddhidhyasanam stage of his spiritual sadhana .

So in essence : The teachings of Shankara and Ramana are same only that Ramana is more direct in his approach and Shankara gives graded steps to reach where Ramana is pointing . My take is certain people are very spiritually mature to understand what Bhagwan Ramana is conveying and they can stick to it directly from the start but for the rest  they have to go through a long route to understand what Bhagwan Ramana is conveying .
It is not a question of whether Bhagwan's teachings are simple or difficult - It is simple for those who have a prepared mind to receive this teachings and difficult for those who do not have a prepared mind to receive these teachings . I leave it to the respective individuals to evaluate where they belong . As for myself after more than a decade of investing my time in Yoga Sadhana I am right now following the traditional method of Shankara  to reach where Bhagwan Ramana is pointing to  .I am blessed to have a wonderful  Vedantic teacher in Swami Paramarthananda whose lectures I regularly attend and with whom I have had may close private 1-1 conversations  . Of course there is no compulsion for me to do this but I choose this way because I found  I had accumulated lot of errors, misconceptions , doubts  in my thinking and they are getting knocked out step by step by this method of learning .Some may like this method , some may not and I leave it to each individual to follow what method best suits them because I feel there is no point in forcing someone to follow one particular method / teaching/ Guru . You need to have a deep  inner connection to what you are doing . I still continue to read the works of Other Gurus , Teachers and also listen to their talks etc  but as a major Sadhana I currently follow the Traditional Method of Shankara
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13662
    • View Profile
Re: Are Ramana's Teachings Different From Shankara's
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 06:40:00 PM »

Dear atmavichar100.

Sri Bhagavan Himself has said that Self Inquiry itself contains antra-saravanan, antra mananam and antra nididhyasanam
Sri Bhagavan did not ignore these formal stages.

Arunachala Siva.